Jalopnik Slams the MKIV Golf

[MrH]

Lol Char is like the crazed GF standing with her hip locked to one side while you're on the couch trying to explain why you're covered in glitter.

[Char]

Naw, more like the looney tune on the standing room A train at 8 in the morning extolling the consequences of denying Jesus as your lord n savior

Hey Char can't post images from here but CR recommended the Jetta/Passat TDI, and the rest of the models range from average to better than average overall. So yea, a far cry from "complete crap" and where they were in the MKIII/MKIV days. Jetta Hybrid is #4 in its class of 18; Jetta TDI is #6, Jetta 1.8T is like #11. For context the Hybrid/TDI are ahead of the Mazda3, Corolla, Civic and Focus. The regular Jetta is ahead of the Sentra, Lancer and most of the Darts and Cruzes. The Passat isn't as competitive, but the TDI is still recommended, and the regular Passat is ahead of everything but the Camry/Accord/Legacy 3.6R. Tiguan is #7 out of like 20 small SUVs, with a recommendation and above average reliability- again only beaten by Honda/Toyota/Subaru and Ford.

Here... not sure you can access this, but here's the links to the data.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/small-cars/ratings-reliability/ratings-overview.htm
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/sedans/ratings-reliability/ratings-overview.htm
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/suvs/ratings-reliability/ratings-overview.htm

At worst, VW is average.... but a lot of its cars are ranked higher than segment offerings from Nissan, Mazda, Ford, etc. Hell some of its cars rank towards the top of their respective classes (Jetta, Tiguan). So yea, VW was shite 10-15 yrs ago, but that was 10-15 yrs ago. CR, the enthusiast auto press, owners, all like a lot of what VW has to offer, and there's data to back up that they've improved a ton.... so what exactly is your problem?

How do you figure? You posted a picture of a 05 TDI, hardly a volume leader: Shit all across the board. The 12/13 models are 2 years old and are still under warranty for most customers - furthermore they will probably only have 30K miles at the most (on average) - It's hardly conclusive to their reliability.
What about the rest of the line up? The 2.0t and the V6 motors?

[Char]

I don't see how it pains you to admit the VW brand as a whole is driven by stupid engineers and even dumber consumers. Essentially what you told me was there are other options that perform as well if not better, and are more reliable (and likely cost less) than a comparable VW. Why buy one?

[12,000 RPM]

How do you figure? You posted a picture of a 05 TDI, hardly a volume leader: Shit all across the board. The 12/13 models are 2 years old and are still under warranty for most customers - furthermore they will probably only have 30K miles at the most (on average) - It's hardly conclusive to their reliability.
What about the rest of the line up? The 2.0t and the V6 motors?

05 TDI I posted a pic of the current TDI

My wife's 06 Rabbit is a reccommended used car buy, as is the MKV Jetta 2.5 and TDI. Well out of warranty with plenty of data.

Also, CR recommending a new car has nothing to do w/reliability... thats a strawman I'm gonna have to check now. As for the 2.0T & VR6, well, for starters the VR6 is being phased out, and 2, the Audi A4 and A6 with the 2.0Ts have predicted reliability that's average or above average, and the A6 3.0T is the top gasoline midsize luxury car. GTI's 2.0T has much better than average reliability for major engine systems and average for minor engine systems. So again, not really sure what your gripes are about.

I don't see how it pains you to admit the VW brand as a whole is driven by stupid engineers and even dumber consumers. Essentially what you told me was there are other options that perform as well if not better, and are more reliable (and likely cost less) than a comparable VW. Why buy one?

Lol. Yea, it pains me to admit something that just isn't true. If their engineers are stupid, how have they turned around the company's quality issues and increased sales volume damn near threefold over the last decade? VW buyers tend to have higher than average education and incomes as well, with sales clustering around the coasts

And don't move the goalposts. First you claim VW is shit and all image, then you immediately backpedal and claim people shouldn't buy them because there are better options. Let me tell you a quick real life story to maybe snap you out of your bench racing and vicarious internet forum knowledge. When wifey and I got down to NC we needed a car she could drive. We wanted a car that was nice to drive, had good cargo capacity, got somewhat decent gas mileage, and that would be nice on road trips. Budget was about $10K. Mazda 3 was out- didn't want to gamble with the rust problems. Focus was too poverty spec. Fit was too expensive. We whittled it down to the Toyota Matrix, Ford Escape Hybrid and the Rabbit. The Matrix was a penalty box and was very boring to drive. The Escape was even more of a penalty box, had a tiny back seat, and not much better cargo capacity than the Rabbit. The Rabbit was way more refined than the other two, had about the same cargo capacity, a livable back seat, etc. etc. It checked all the practical boxes and also checked the emotional boxes. A year later, no problems. So that's how someone might arrive at a VW. Actually going out and driving the cars, instead of building up a base of knowledge of them by problem threads on the internet.

What's funny is, I'm pretty sure you drive an E90 330i, which in my experience is NOT the best pick of its segment. That award goes to the V36 G35. But since you're a coward, you won't identify yourself at all out of fear of undermining the intellectual authority you think you have. No thx.

VW was shit in the past but it's slightly better than average now. The Jetta and Passat are depressing, but they are reliable and good values. And the rest of the lineup offers an upscale feel at a price not much higher than the mainstream competition. I.e. a Tiguan is nicer than a CR-V/RAV-4, GTI is nicer than a Focus ST/MS3, etc. etc. It's not difficult to understand.

[Char]

05 TDI I posted a pic of the current TDI

My wife's 06 Rabbit is a reccommended used car buy, as is the MKV Jetta 2.5 and TDI. Well out of warranty with plenty of data.

Also, CR recommending a new car has nothing to do w/reliability... thats a strawman I'm gonna have to check now. As for the 2.0T & VR6, well, for starters the VR6 is being phased out, and 2, the Audi A4 and A6 with the 2.0Ts have predicted reliability that's average or above average, and the A6 3.0T is the top gasoline midsize luxury car. GTI's 2.0T has much better than average reliability for major engine systems and average for minor engine systems. So again, not really sure what your gripes are about.
Lol. Yea, it pains me to admit something that just isn't true. If their engineers are stupid, how have they turned around the company's quality issues and increased sales volume damn near threefold over the last decade? VW buyers tend to have higher than average education and incomes as well, with sales clustering around the coasts

And don't move the goalposts. First you claim VW is shit and all image, then you immediately backpedal and claim people shouldn't buy them because there are better options. Let me tell you a quick real life story to maybe snap you out of your bench racing and vicarious internet forum knowledge. When wifey and I got down to NC we needed a car she could drive. We wanted a car that was nice to drive, had good cargo capacity, got somewhat decent gas mileage, and that would be nice on road trips. Budget was about $10K. Mazda 3 was out- didn't want to gamble with the rust problems. Focus was too poverty spec. Fit was too expensive. We whittled it down to the Toyota Matrix, Ford Escape Hybrid and the Rabbit. The Matrix was a penalty box and was very boring to drive. The Escape was even more of a penalty box, had a tiny back seat, and not much better cargo capacity than the Rabbit. The Rabbit was way more refined than the other two, had about the same cargo capacity, a livable back seat, etc. etc. It checked all the practical boxes and also checked the emotional boxes. A year later, no problems. So that's how someone might arrive at a VW. Actually going out and driving the cars, instead of building up a base of knowledge of them by problem threads on the internet.

What's funny is, I'm pretty sure you drive an E90 330i (I don't), which in my experience is NOT the best pick of its segment. That award goes to the V36 G35. But since you're a coward, you won't identify yourself at all out of fear of undermining the intellectual authority you think you have. No thx.

VW was is shit in the past but it's slightly better than average now. The Jetta and Passat are depressing, but they are reliable and good values. And the rest of the lineup offers an upscale feel at a price not much higher than the mainstream competition. I.e. a Tiguan is nicer than a CR-V/RAV-4, GTI is nicer than a Focus ST/MS3, etc. etc. It's not difficult to understand.

Wait what? The picture you posted (which is the only one you posted oddly) is of the TDI Jetta which only shows 3 years of data. Nothing is shown for 06-11 model years. I don't know how you can make a claim that they are reliable when I posted a previous link showing the exact opposite, and CR doesn't list their reliablity at all.  Second, CR will not recommend a vehicle that they do not consider reliable, and without being able to see the data, I can't "prove" that you're not correct. I can however, point out you're being particularly selective of the models/engine configurations you have named.

So the dogshit 2.0 and V6 models are being replaced with more shit 2.0 and V6 models, and that means? Please post the pictures to the remaining models.

Fixed the rest of the post for you.

[12,000 RPM]

Lol. Will you stop with the cowardice, and just come out with what your real problem is? Objectively, you have no leg to stand on. Your criticism basically amounts to "everyone involved with VW is doo doo heads". You have never owned a VW product. Why not just come clean and talk about the douchebag who turned you off from VWs, instead of struggling to maintain this face of objectivity in the face of so much contradictory evidence?

[CALL_911]

Why do you guys entertain this clown with a response?

[Char]

Lol. Will you stop with the cowardice, and just come out with what your real problem is? Objectively, you have no leg to stand on. Your criticism basically amounts to "everyone involved with VW is doo doo heads". You have never owned a VW product. Why not just come clean and talk about the douchebag who turned you off from VWs, instead of struggling to maintain this face of objectivity in the face of so much contradictory evidence?

I'm not pretending to be objective - I really HATE VW. First it was the MK4 cars that handled like garbage, had terrible engines and horrid reliability. Next, there is the owners who are passionate about their shit cars - in the same way a wife is passionate about her abusive husband: It's not his fault he beats her, if she just met all his needs, all the time, the beatings would cease! Except, unlike an spouse, there really is no redeeming value in any consumer being hitched to VW.

And have you seen the owners? Worst people EVER. Completely oblivious, and more money than sense, parading around in their stupid product as if there was something to be proud of. YES, you have a GERMAN car, just like BMW and Mercedes - except the Jetta is as close to a real German car as the Mitsubishi Colt is a nice car in comparison to a Lexus LS460.

Stanceworks is the final nail in the coffin for me – I hate the brand, and borderline despise the owners. I generally ignore the VW section at car shows anyhow and as a owner technically, I don't need to address your presence in person regardless, you aren't worth the time.

[Char]

Why do you guys entertain this clown with a response?

Because he can't help himself, and apparently, neither can you.

I speak a truth you don't even want to admit to yourself, as you continually seek some sort of justification for your purchase. There is no redemption my child - just more sadness and disappointment.

[MrH]

So basically, some stanced out VW guy stole his girl and took his lunch money.  Got it.

[Char]

So basically, some stanced out VW guy stole his girl and took his lunch money.  Got it.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[AutobahnSHO]

http://torwars.com/its-drama-llama-time/

[12,000 RPM]

Fuck this dude, guys. Stop responding.

[SJ_GTI]

Fuck this dude, guys. Stop responding.

But if we stop responding, don't the terrorists win?

[2o6]

I'm not pretending to be objective - I really HATE VW. First it was the MK4 cars that handled like garbage, had terrible engines and horrid reliability. Next, there is the owners who are passionate about their shit cars - in the same way a wife is passionate about her abusive husband: It's not his fault he beats her, if she just met all his needs, all the time, the beatings would cease! Except, unlike an spouse, there really is no redeeming value in any consumer being hitched to VW.

And have you seen the owners? Worst people EVER. Completely oblivious, and more money than sense, parading around in their stupid product as if there was something to be proud of. YES, you have a GERMAN car, just like BMW and Mercedes - except the Jetta is as close to a real German car as the Mitsubishi Colt is a nice car in comparison to a Lexus LS460.

Stanceworks is the final nail in the coffin for me – I hate the brand, and borderline despise the owners. I generally ignore the VW section at car shows anyhow and technically, I don't need to address your presence in person regardless, you aren't worth the time.

There are a lot of things I would call the MKIV Golf/Jetta, but bad handling is not one of them.


You're weird.

[Raza]

There are a lot of things I would call the MKIV Golf/Jetta, but bad handling is not one of them.


You're weird.

Plus, he has no idea what he's talking about.  Both my Volkswagens were put together better and more reliable than my Mercedes that cost twice as much. 

[Char]

There are a lot of things I would call the MKIV Golf/Jetta, but bad handling is not one of them.


You're weird.

You're delusional - I think I asked before and you came back with nothing: Show me a competitive scca (not even winning) MK4 and I'll leave my crazy VW train.

[Char]

Plus, he has no idea what he's talking about.  Both my Volkswagens were put together better and more reliable than my Mercedes that cost twice as much.

An unreliable Mercedes? Say it isn't so - that doesn't stop the VWs from being equally terrible.
Just because YOU have had good luck, doesn't mean that the majority of people have.

[2o6]

You're delusional - I think I asked before and you came back with nothing: Show me a competitive scca (not even winning) MK4 and I'll leave my crazy VW train.

Have you ever heard of a straw man argument?

[12,000 RPM]

Char should dress up as a goal post for Halloween, and just run around wherever he lives. He's great at that.

[CJ]

You're delusional - I think I asked before and you came back with nothing: Show me a competitive scca (not even winning) MK4 and I'll leave my crazy VW train.

Something has to be competitive on the SCCA before you consider it a good handler? I've driven several MkIVs. They handle nicely.

[12,000 RPM]

Something has to be competitive on the SCCA before you consider it a good handler?

Lol, never mind the obvious question, "what's competitive"? I'm sure as soon as someone finds something, the lil guy will run off with the goalposts for the 1000th time.

[hotrodalex]

Never mind the fact that autocross results are largely based on the driver.

[Char]

And a driver isn't going to handicap themselves with a poor performing car. Stating a car handles 'well' with no way to objectively measure it is stupid - so I'm asking for quantifiable measurements of these cars handling 'well'. Should be fairly easy considering how popular the platform is, right?

FYI - you're thinking about the pax time.

[12,000 RPM]

Wats next.

[Char]

Wats next.

Right.
Car is a quality nightmare: true
car is unreliable: true
car doesn't handle that well: in progress
owners are delusional: true (See Raza and 12,000RPM)

No goal post are moving, you're all just acting like a bunch of rats aboard a sinking ship. You want to cling on something,  anything, that will make me 'wrong' Not happening dudes.

[AutobahnSHO]

http://www.carspin.net/index.php?topic=30795.msg2035294#msg2035294

[12,000 RPM]

Im having trouble reading your posts Char... maybe post louder/angrier, then I'll be able to read them

[Char]

Im having trouble reading your posts Char... maybe post louder/angrier, then I'll be able to read them

You sound upset, at you upset?

[Raza]

An unreliable Mercedes? Say it isn't so - that doesn't stop the VWs from being equally terrible.
Just because YOU have had good luck, doesn't mean that the majority of people have.

Good luck, with two different cars, on different platforms, for a total of 9 years and 140K miles of driving?  And it's not like I baby my cars, either.  My lowly 1.8T Passat had its cruise control set at 130 more than once....