Total US market up 5% YTD... ATS sales down 21%...

[hotrodalex]

A pity if they've gotten worse. I kinda assumed they just stayed the same. Have only sat in a newer 5 and 7, however.

[68_427]

The American made models are horrible.  Especially the switch gear.  Paint chips off two years in...

[2o6]

The American made models are horrible.  Especially the switch gear.  Paint chips off two years in...

There's a ring on iDrive that always scratches my nails. It hurts.

[68_427]

My friend had to memorize his steering wheel buttons because all the paint rubbed/chipped off them in less than 3 years.  (last gen X5)

[TBR]

Retro is a terrible way to look. Retro is a way of hiding a products flaws, IMO.


Cadillac needs avant-grade appeal. The XTS needed to be this flamboyantly styled FWD thing that makes you notice it. 


That's what Cadillac is missing; the 2003 CTS was such a head turner for it's day - the current lineup is stylistically too tame for a luxury make. High end makes should throw caution to the wind, have your hand on the pulse of fashion. Arguably, the 2003 CTS has that impact.


The current crop does not.

Audi is doing quite well w/ pretty conservative styling.

The ATS's problems are: price, marketing, engine, and CUE.

If I was shopping in this segment I'd give a hard look at a V6 model.

[2o6]

Audi is doing quite well w/ pretty conservative styling.

The ATS's problems are: price, marketing, engine, and CUE.

If I was shopping in this segment I'd give a hard look at a V6 model.

I wouldn't call Audi conservative, and Audi only got noticed when they stopped making odd looking crap with the 1st A4. Cadillac can't carve out that niche; the luxury market is different now.

[280Z Turbo]

I think Art and Science is getting a bit tired. It's just kinda jagged and slab sided nowadays.

[12,000 RPM]

Its not A&S, its the underlying cars. No detailing can fix the CTS's weird prototype style wheel gap for example. Or the ATS' slab sided anonymous profile. But the IMAJ and Ciel still look like $300K flagships from the future. With good proportions its hard to mess up a design (see: Lexus RC)

[SJ_GTI]

Had an ATS rental for a long weekend while visiting family in texas.

Overall I liked the car, but it had a few flaws that would probably prevent me from buying one:

1. Sun glare could wash out the entire center stack display. it wasn't all the time, but at certain angles I couldn't make any adjustments because I couldn't read any of the digital dials. Since I wasn't familiar with the layout I didn't know where stuff was without looking.
2. 2.0T engine felt weaker than I would have expected. When I first got the car I assumed it had the 2.5L V6, but it turned out it did have the supposedly more powerful 2.0T. Note that I didn't feel the engine was thrashy nor did it have any noticeable lag so from that POV it felt fine. But I would have expected a ~250 HP engine to feel faster than a VW GTI. The problem may have been the transmission instead of the engine, but either way it simply didn't feel as powerful as it should have (although it was perfectly adequate, its not like a VW GTI is a slow car after all).
3. Price is on the expensive side IMHO. Considering its engine options I thought it should be at or below an Audi A4, but I think it may have actually been more expensive (unless stepping up to the S4, but then you had access to options not available on an ATS).

It did have some very positive attributes. I have seen people complain about the backseat, but it seemed to fit 4 adults comfortably. Admittedly the two people in the back seat were on the shorter side (female - Mother and Sister-in-law) but they said it wasn't bad at all. It was smaller than my S4's backseat, but not by a lot.

1. Its main positive attribute was definitely its handling. It felt more tossable and eager to change directions than my S4.
2. It had skinnier tires but it didn't seem to give away much grip, either.
3. The positive aspect of the smaller backseat was that the car itself also had tidier proportions (IMHO) than the A4/S4.
4. Steering feedback was superb.

Overall I really enjoyed the car. Its a shame that it isn't selling better. Hopefully Cadillac doesn't exit this market niche as I thought its negatives were easily fixable.

[CALL_911]

Your impressions of the 2.0T are identical to what mine were, down to the GTI comparison. Except I thought it was kind of thrashy (but not laggy)

[MexicoCityM3]

Also very similar to my CTS impressions from a few months ago. Caddy does build the best handling/tossable cars in their segments today. Both ATS & CTS. But everything else is subpar which is a pity. Particularly the drivetrain and cabin tech.

[12,000 RPM]

I hear Lexus is not far behind on handling these days, with much better interiors. I'm sure Toyota's 2.0t will be better than GMs too.

[CJ]

I drove a brand new IS250 F-Sport a few weeks ago. While that engine is dated, that thing handled really well.

[Submariner]

The Town Car rides like Jello. The XTS is far better.


Tr XTS is on par with modern Bmw cars.


It's just that modern BMW's don't feel that expensive inside.

I disagree.  The ride was harsh and noisy.  I don't know how it is as a drivers car, but sitting in the rear seat, I was thoroughly unimpressed.  Not to mention the materials, everywhere, looked and felt cheap. 

The current generation 5er I sat in felt much better put together, though it too has a few cheap touches I'd like to think wouldn't have been acceptable in say, an E39. 

[2o6]

I disagree.  The ride was harsh and noisy.  I don't know how it is as a drivers car, but sitting in the rear seat, I was thoroughly unimpressed.  Not to mention the materials, everywhere, looked and felt cheap. 

The current generation 5er I sat in felt much better put together, though it too has a few cheap touches I'd like to think wouldn't have been acceptable in say, an E39.

I don't know man, the entire new 5 series dashboard is as a whole not as nice as older models.

[TBR]

I hear Lexus is not far behind on handling these days, with much better interiors. I'm sure Toyota's 2.0t will be better than GMs too.

I vastly prefer the ATS's interior to the IS's. The Lexus felt very claustrophobic, although I am sure its tech is better.

[12,000 RPM]

I def preferred the IS' interior. Feels super Japanese and is relatively easy to use. Also had a roomier back seat.

[SJ_GTI]

FWIW, I really liked the look of the ATS's interior design, but the glare problem was an issue. The quality of materials seemed about the same as my S4.

[TBR]

I def preferred the IS' interior. Feels super Japanese and is relatively easy to use. Also had a roomier back seat.

I disagree that the back seat was roomier. Certainly didn't feel that way.

I like the Lexus aesthetically, but once I actually sat in it...ugh.

[MrH]

I don't know man, the entire new 5 series dashboard is as a whole not as nice as older models.

  Wat?

[2o6]

  Wat?

I'm in and out of 5-series all day. Some elements of it feel kind of cheap



An E-class beats the brakes off the 5-series.

[MrH]

I'm in and out of 5-series all day. Some elements of it feel kind of cheap



An E-class beats the brakes off the 5-series.

What areas?  I put the F10 5-series waaaay ahead of the E-class.  To say it's not as nice as an E60 is way out in left field IMO

[12,000 RPM]

GM needs to fire their analysts and hire me. I will give them a discount rate and recommend them a real winner, down to the milimeter.

[Raza]

The American made models are horrible.  Especially the switch gear.  Paint chips off two years in...

Hmm, my Z4 looks brand new on the inside. Must be an issue with the larger production numbers.

[Raza]

The ATS is really good looking. Might be the second best looker in its class.

[MexicoCityM3]

What areas?  I put the F10 5-series waaaay ahead of the E-class.  To say it's not as nice as an E60 is way out in left field IMO

The 5er has a much more modern and IMO better design. But the Merc's materials are better all across the interior. Unfortunately, it is designed for old men right down to the ridiculous watch.

[Submariner]

What areas?  I put the F10 5-series waaaay ahead of the E-class.  To say it's not as nice as an E60 is way out in left field IMO

In terms of materials?  Nah.  Design?  That's subjective but I like the BMW a bit more.

The ATS is really good looking. Might be the second best looker in its class.

I remember a few years back hearing a lot of complaints about Range Rover switchgear (the Sat-nav, buttons, etc that came from BMW) paint rubbing off after a few years.  My folks Range Rover, circa 2009, has faded paint on all four door handles which IIRC was a problem even when BMW owned them. 

[280Z Turbo]

GM needs to fire their analysts and hire me. I will give them a discount rate and recommend them a real winner, down to the milimeter.

Sure, why not? It's always amateur hour at GM, in my experience.

[12,000 RPM]

172 day inventory

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/08/bloated-inventories-lead-gm-idle-cadillac-plants/#more-888081

I want Mr H to be a man, and say he and the analysts were dead wrong.

172 day inventory.

[Submariner]

172 day inventory

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/08/bloated-inventories-lead-gm-idle-cadillac-plants/#more-888081

I want Mr H to be a man, and say he and the analysts were dead wrong.

172 day inventory.

172 days?  That's rough.