Car Chat

[giant_mtb]

Could've done that shit in my Audi.

[Galaxy]

BMW has lowered the pricing of is flat rate program by introducing a new base tier, and lowering the prices of the existing ones..

The cheapest is now $ 1,099 a month, which gives you access to the 330i, 330e, X2, X3, M240 cabrio, and the i3. so far the cheapest was $ 2.000 a month, now lowered to $1,399 per month, and includes various 5 series, X5, M2 .

Still only in Nashville, the trial balloon is being tweaked.

[12,000 RPM]

They need to do something for used cars. I thikn a $500/mo used car subscription program w/o insurance from someone like Carmax would be awesome. I'd be all over that.

[Soup DeVille]

Who wants to spend $500/month on a used car?

[giant_mtb]

Wanna spend more than the average lease on a used vehicle??  Hell yeah.

[Galaxy]

They need to do something for used cars. I thikn a $500/mo used car subscription program w/o insurance from someone like Carmax would be awesome. I'd be all over that.

That is what Ford does. It starts at ~ $400 a month for three, four year old cars with insurance. 1 Grand a month for new BMWs is arguably  a better deal.

[12,000 RPM]

OK, $500/mo is probably high considering used car depreciation is much less severe. But the point is I think a used car subscription deal could work. The Ford thing would be intriguing if the selections weren't crap. No 2.0T Fusions let alone any Rustangs. Hopefully other automakers get on board.

[CaminoRacer]

No. Subscriptions are retarded

[AutobahnSHO]

No. Subscriptions are retarded

Unless you sell them.

[MX793]

Wanna spend more than the average lease on a used vehicle??  Hell yeah.

Funny thing is, this service has been available for ages, offered by companies like Hertz and Avis.

[12,000 RPM]

A monthly rental from Avis is gonna be $750 and up for POS rental cars with no insurance.

I think there are people who like to change cars often, and there is a profitable way to serve them for less money than that.

[MX793]

A monthly rental from Avis is gonna be $750 and up for POS rental cars with no insurance.

I think there are people who like to change cars often, and there is a profitable way to serve them for less money than that.

I don't understand why people are so drawn to these "subscription" services.  It's little more than a rental service and a hell of a lot more expensive than actually owning a car.  And the concept of one for used cars is preposterous and economically disastrous for the sucker who buys into it.

You buy an $18K pre-owned car and drive it for 3 years and then trade/sell it for something different (your re-sell price is $14000).  Let's assume over those 3 years, these are your expenses:
1 set of tires = $600
1 set of pads/rotors = $500
Oil changes (3 per year @ $40 ea) = $360
Insurance ($100/mo) = $3600
Registration ($40/yr) = $120
Misc Unforeseen repairs = $500

Total annual cost = $3,227

Or you can rent a used car, or series of used cars, through a hypothetical used-car subscription service for $400-500/mo and pay $4,800-$6,000 a year.

And we wonder why most people's personal finances are a disaster?

[SJ_GTI]

Businesses taking advantage of lack of financial literacy is practically a tradition in our country.

[Laconian]

Businesses taking advantage of lack of financial literacy is practically a tradition in our country.

Preying on the poor with usurious loans

[AutobahnSHO]

Sorry MX, you can't resell an $18k car for $14k 3 years later. Your point is still valid, as the insurance being figured in is a huge cost not figured in to the subscription.

Financially new cars make zero sense, neither does anything over $10k. Unless you hold on to them for a very very long time. It's always cheaper to do the cheapest used possible then do repairs.

[AutobahnSHO]

Businesses taking advantage of lack of financial literacy is practically a tradition in our country.

It is. Imagine the people out out of business if everyone knew how to shop.

[MX793]

Sorry MX, you can't resell an $18k car for $14k 3 years later. Your point is still valid, as the insurance being figured in is a huge cost not figured in to the subscription.

Financially new cars make zero sense, neither does anything over $10k. Unless you hold on to them for a very very long time. It's always cheaper to do the cheapest used possible then do repairs.

Depends on the car and how good a deal you got on it when you bought.  A former neighbor bought a lightly used Tacoma and then traded it ~4 years later for basically what he paid for it.

As for insurance, while Sporty is citing "insurance not included" (not sure how that would work since insurance rates are a function of the vehicle), all of the subscription services to date include insurance in the monthly fee.  The renting company, I mean "subscription service", holds the insurance policy.  So I'm assuming whatever price the subscription on a proposed "used car subscription service" would also bake insurance in.

Using more realistic numbers.  A 3 yo Accord EX lists for $14000 KBB.  A 6 year old one for $7900.  All the rest staying the same, that brings your annual total $3900/yr.  Still well less than even a hypothetical $400/mo "rental" subscription.  And it only gets better if you keep the car longer.

Now, if you're someone who bores easily and can't stand driving the same car more than a year, well, you actually can end up better than if you kept the car for 3.  Presuming the cars you buy already have new tires and brakes on them, you're unlikely to fully consume either over the course of the year.  And if you're sticking to cars that are inside of that period when you've got no major maintenance items like timing belts or water pumps, the ~3 yo range, you can largely avoid any other big expenses.  Using an Accord EX as an example again:

Purchase Price - $14,000
Oil changes - $120
Insurance - $1200
Registration - $40
Re-sale value - $12,000

And that's pretty much it for a year, so that puts your cost at only $3,360 a year.

FWIW, I did the math for my last Mustang, which was bought new, and my annualized cost of ownership was $3700/yr.  Admittedly, I didn't drive it as much as the average person because it was a 3-season car, so that helped with resale/trade in some, but even if I put typical miles on it, it still would have been less than some kind of whack subscription scheme.

[12,000 RPM]

Rental prices vary by reason and don't include any insurance beyond liability so I'm not sure they are a valid comparison.

Obviously changing cars every 1-2 years is gonna cost more than changing cars every 7-30 years as is customary on CarSPIN. For people who want to experience more cars in a shorter period of time, of which I think there are a growing number, there are more options than are currently available. There are a lot of levers to pull.

[AutobahnSHO]

Yup, and subscription is the too expensive way to go.

[AutobahnSHO]

Btw my history is under $180/month for my most expensive car. I usually get down to about $120/month, including engine swaps.

Edit: not including insurance.

[veeman]

One of the unforeseen costs which will for sure occur are "minor" dents and scratches which these subscription services will force you to pay for out of pocket.  Everytime you turn your car in, someone's gonna walk around the car and look for them just as they do at a rental counter.  It's just like turning a car in at lease end.  They will nickel and dime you.

[MX793]

Rental prices vary by reason and don't include any insurance beyond liability so I'm not sure they are a valid comparison.

Obviously changing cars every 1-2 years is gonna cost more than changing cars every 7-30 years as is customary on CarSPIN. For people who want to experience more cars in a shorter period of time, of which I think there are a growing number, there are more options than are currently available. There are a lot of levers to pull.

These subscription services are basically rental programs with insurance (which you have the option to buy for "traditional" rentals as well, for extra cost).  The vehicles you drive in these are never titled or registered in your name.  You never have an equity in them.  If that's not a rental service, I don't know what is.

[12,000 RPM]

These subscription services are basically rental programs with insurance (which you have the option to buy for "traditional" rentals as well, for extra cost).  The vehicles you drive in these are never titled or registered in your name.  You never have an equity in them.  If that's not a rental service, I don't know what is.

Titling/registering is semantic. You never have equity in a lease either. Once it's over you have to buy it like you never owned it. With financing you have some equity in but you still don't own the car until that note is paid off

You're gonna pay in depreciation one way or another. A short term lease/rental allows more frequent changeouts for people who want them and avoids the end of life hassles.

[giant_mtb]

Sorry MX, you can't resell an $18k car for $14k 3 years later.

Dude I could sell my Taco for 80-90% what I paid 3 (4?) years ago, easy.

[Soup DeVille]

Dude I could sell my Taco for 80-90% what I paid 3 (4?) years ago, easy.

Dat Toyota life...

[giant_mtb]

Dat Toyota life...

Yoopers love their fuckin' Tacos.

[MrH]

Toyota life is wild.  I just checked at what my 4Runner is worth.  It hasn't depreciated much at all.

Looking at Edmunds True Cost of Ownership, it looks like I'm nearing a big uptick in depreciation due to age and mileage.  It's not really a depreciation cliff, but a valley for sure.

Just poking around, I saw a review of the new Accord.  I could trade the 4Runner for a Accord Sport 2.0t w/ 6-speed straight up.  Basically carry over the 4Runner equity into an Accord.  4Runner has 2.5 years left on the loan.  I could take out a 3 year loan on the Accord.

Basically it would put me in car loan purgatory for 6 months longer.  I'd lose some utility in the process too.  But I'd get into a car 3 years newer, with 55k fewer miles.  I'd save $120/month in gas, another $5/month in insurance, and my payment would be about $100/month lower I think. $225/month in savings easily makes up for the extra 6 months of payments.

Also has all the latest active cruise control and gadgets that make stop and go a little easier to live with.  I think the 10-speed automatic does complete stop-and-go traffic automatically.

Interesting idea, not sure if it's worth it or not, but it's interesting.

[Laconian]

Interesting idea, not sure if it's worth it or not, but it's interesting.

Oh yeah, auto stop and go worth is every penny over here. Best option box ever ticked.

[MrH]

Oh yeah, auto stop and go worth is every penny over here. Best option box ever ticked.

Yeah, traffic saps me of energy most days. I'm commuting 45-65 minutes each way, pretty much always mild to heavy traffic on a highway with speeds from total stop to 85 mph.

It's just mentally taxing after a long day at work. Anything that can help alleviate.

I was shocked at how much I could get for the 4Runner and how cheap loaded up Accords are. Cost per mile is substantially less in these new sedans.

[CaminoRacer]

An Accord Sport will probably replace my Mazda when the time comes. Although the current ones are a bit ugly... Hopefully they update the styling