Car Chat

[MexicoCityM3]

That post merits its own thread.

We are the horseback riding enthusiasts of the future.

[Laconian]

[giant_mtb]

But does he have his own shop?

No, but he has a salary + benefits.



He's coming up in a couple weeks, actually. I'm virtually the only person he trusts to touch his car with a buffer and I live ~460 miles away and have never done work for him. But he knows how I am.

His fear is needless, BTW...his CTS is silver. hah.

[Laconian]

I'm not sure how to quite articulate it, but I think that smartphones have diverted people's interest away from the "journey" parts of life in general. Literally and metaphorically. Being immersed in one's surroundings, engaging in spontaneous social interaction, just being aware - nope, better to swipe around mindlessly on a feed.

IMO cars are a sort of ambient sensory pleasure which many would rather tune out, because their minds are always somewhere else entirely.

[2o6]

I feel like that's hyperbole



People my age are broke as fuck, and car ownership, home ownership, and other "normal" things from years ago seem lofty and impossible.


I can't see myself ever owning a second "fun" car in the next couple decades of my life, if ever.

[CaminoRacer]

Those new Mustangs are definitely head turners. Holy shit.

But then I saw a black SS on my way home today.

[MX793]

I feel like that's hyperbole



People my age are broke as fuck, and car ownership, home ownership, and other "normal" things from years ago seem lofty and impossible.


I can't see myself ever owning a second "fun" car in the next couple decades of my life, if ever.

Lots of people during peak "fun car" times didn't have second cars.  There were lots of people for whom a Mustang or Probe or Integra was their only vehicle.  Hell, in the 60s, intermediate sized 2-doors like the Malibu/Chevelle were frequently "family cars".

[12,000 RPM]

I feel like that's hyperbole



People my age are broke as fuck, and car ownership, home ownership, and other "normal" things from years ago seem lofty and impossible.


I can't see myself ever owning a second "fun" car in the next couple decades of my life, if ever.

There is also the issue of traffic and time

Back in my college days I remember just waking up, meeting my friends and driving around. We spent weekends tearing shit up at the street races and on highways. I could spend like 1-2 hours washing and cleaning my POS Accord. Now? Forget about it.

And even if I had the time, traffic, road rage, road conditions etc have deteriorated a good bit just over the last ~20 years. Hell, just in the 5 years I've been down here traffic has got worse with all the growth and construction. So if I bought a fun car, where could I even enjoy it? I suppose I personally could enjoy it on the back roads of my alternate commute route, but most people aren't that lucky.

I also feel the death of stickshift cars is overblown. Taking the small Fords off the list, there are 79 cars here:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/04/24/list-new-cars-with-manual-transmissions/

I'd wager most of them are a lot more fun to drive than the average stickshift car from 20, 30, 40 years ago. Yes (real) coupes are an endangered species, but only because it became immediately apparent that sedans can be as fun to drive as the coupes they share platforms with without the severe practicality penalties. And there are still good coupes available for the working man (Miata, BRZ, Rustang etc). And this isn't even factoring the used market.

I still think a lot of the handwringing over cars comes down to age.

[MX793]

For most of those cars on the MT available list, it's only available on the cheapest/least desirable trims.  Want a Mazda6 with leather and premium audio and a stick?  Sorry.  4WD Colorado?  Nope.

That list is also bloated by listing the same model multiple times (GLI is a trim level of the Jetta, and why are they listing 2018 and 2019 models of some cars?)

[12,000 RPM]

Fucking lol

https://jalopnik.com/the-big-m8-meme-is-the-best-thing-to-come-out-of-lemans-1826996652

[SJ_GTI]

That last one with the size comparison to the tankers got me. 

[Soup DeVille]

me too, but I'm pretty sure that's the battleship Yamato.

[FoMoJo]

Great for getting you from A to B, slamming on the brakes for you so you don't rearend the car in front of you and keeping you in your lane so you can text your friends while browsing your Spotify playlist.

Great unless you'd prefer to shift for yourself.  Or enjoy crisp handling and steering feedback.  Or prefer low-slung stability to tipsy, barstool seating.  I mean, there are still some cars that still offer some of that, but unless you're making well into the 6-figures, you probably won't be able to afford them.

We are going to reach the point where the number of affordable new vehicles that can be legally entered into SCCA or similar amateur racing series will be relatively few.

I remember when I was a teenager and super-obsessed with cars and my dad, who was also big into cars as a teen and early 20-something, mentioned that he kind of lost his obsession as he got older.  I thought it was probably due to the fact that once you've got a family and a regular job, the prospect of owning small, sporty cars (and he owned several as a teen and 20-something, including turbo Corvairs, Corvettes, a Celica, and a 914) was no longer a reality.  Then I ponder my own dwindling obsession, which I attribute to cars changing into things that are the opposite of what appeals to me.  My favorite eras for cars were the early 60s to early 70s (the muscle/pony car golden era), the late 80s to late 90s (peak import sport coupe), and mid 00s to today.  Then I think about what cars were around when my dad was in his teens and what the automotive landscape was like as he got into his 20s and started a family and see a lot of parallels to myself today.

My dad hit his teenage years in the very early 70s.  Peak muscle and pony car years before the feds clamped down on emissions.  By the time he was old enough to afford his own car, the malaise era had just started but there were tons of golden era Mustangs, Camaros, GM A-bodies, Torinos, even Corvettes out there that weren't classics yet and weren't considered anything special so they could be picked up at a reasonable price.  As the Malaise era dragged on, those golden era cars got older and more tired.  Then the sculpted designs of the 60s and 70s gave way to boxy designs of the 80s and the FWD revolution.  Peak Malaise era hit while my dad was in his mid 20s.  I'd have lost interest in cars too.

I got interested in cars in my early teens.  It was the mid-90s, so peak import sport coupe.  Every brand had at least one small, swoopy, affordable 2-door.  You had the Scirocco/Corrado, the Integra, the CRX, the MX3, MX6, Probe, Beretta, 240SX, NX2000, MR2, Celica, Eclipse, Talon, Laser, Miata, Daytona.  Then the more serious stuff like the Z32 300ZX, 3000GT, NSX, Supra, FD-3 RX-7, first generation Viper...  Plus the traditional pony cars.  By the late 90s, a lot of those had died off, but they were still plentiful on the used market at prices that a college kid could afford and still had enough life in them that you didn't spend half your life trying to keep them running.  It was during this lull that I entered car ownership age.  After a 5-6 year lull, there was a resurgence of fun to drive cars in the mid 00s.  More in the form of hot hatches rather than uniquely bodied coupes, but the fun to drive spirit was still there.  The Nissan Z came back.  And the RX (albeit not as sexy as before).  The S2000.  The Civic Si coupe came back.  We got the WRX, albeit it wasn't a sexy coupe (never was).  The Lancer Evo.  MkV GTI, while not a sexy as the Scirocco or Corrado, was a solid performer.  The Neon SRT.  The Camaro came back.  The S197 Mustang.  GM made hot versions of their compacts (Cobalt/Ion) and brought out the Skystice.  Toyota revived the MR2 (briefly).  Dodge brought out the Challenger.  Ford gave us hot hatches that were previously reserved for Europe.  We've been riding that wave for nearly 15 years, which is really a pretty long time, so I should be grateful for that much.  Longer than the previous Good Times for enthusiasts.  But now we're seeing those disappear in favor of ubiquitous 2-box SUVs/CUVs and soulless hybrids, all laden with driver aids and tech that detracts from the driving experience.

Excellent post.  The '50s and '60s were my era for cars.  The '50s were a lot of fun because, in the mid to late '50s, shoe box Fords, Chevys, Dodges, et al were available for about $300 and less which any greaser could afford.  The idea then was to make them as unique as possible which usually meant stripping off all the chrome, filling in the holes with body filler and painting them with several cans of areosol spray; often just primer.  Doing other mods was just too expensive for most of us.  However, anything with a 6 to 8 year old flat head usually ran just fine.  Mine was a '51 Mercury that is still among the favourite cars I ever had.

The '60s were another story.  The horsepower wars.  Unfortunately, I was married at the time and had to compromise.  However, I was able to persuade my wife of the time, that a Mustang was a perfect family car and settled for a new '66 Mustang notch back with a 289; just the 2 barrel version.  I would've given most anything for a HiPo, but it wasn't in the budget.  At that time as well, the manufacturers were into racing in a big way and that was part of the fun.  Slightly modified production cars in NASCAR, highly modified production engines in the INDY series, even Ford sponsored F1 engines.  Of course the World Sportscar Championships, Le Mans, etc.  All things cars was getting better and better into the late '60s and I traded in the '66 Mustang for a new '70 Mach I, 351 Cleveland.  Very underrated engine.  We were all excited about how the new engines were going to compete in NASCAR.  Then it all fell apart.

In the '70s, I reverted to buying used '60s sports cars and had absolutely no interest in anything the Big 3 were producing; though I did end up buying a '78 Bronco. Things didn't start looking up again until the '80s.  A friend bought an '83 Mustang and I was impressed that it was able to lay down a bit of rubber.  Promising, but too many things had changed.

[Galaxy]

Regarding the Uber crash in Arizona.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/05/emergency-brakes-were-disabled-by-ubers-self-driving-software-ntsb-says/
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/06/police-uber-driver-was-streaming-hulu-just-before-fatal-self-driving-car-crash/

At 1.3 seconds before impact, the self-driving system determined that an emergency braking maneuver was needed to mitigate a collision. According to Uber, emergency braking maneuvers are not enabled while the vehicle is under computer control, to reduce the potential for erratic vehicle behavior. The vehicle operator is relied on to intervene and take action. The system is not designed to alert the operator.

"Uber had been racing to meet an end-of-year internal goal of allowing customers in the Phoenix area to ride in Uber's autonomous Volvo vehicles with no safety driver sitting behind the wheel,"

How on earth did they think their system was ready for general use, when even basic functions do not work?

The woman was watching a tv show on her smartphone.


Basically, everyone involved dropped the ball here. Even though I hate distracted drivers with a passion, I actually blame the woman the least here. They probably told her yeah, yeah the car drives itself, you just need to sit there for regulatory reasons.

[giant_mtb]

Some cool tidbits.  Like, Bugatti will not deliver one of these until they've confirmed that the transmission can handle 200 launch-control starts in one day with no issues. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcmWknKtJkk

[Galaxy]

^ Interesting that they decided not to put a center screen on it because they know it will look ridiculous 50 years from now.

That look of dread at the end when he floors it for several seconds and the police car shows up. I'm assuming he was well into into an area where money alone will not pay for the ticket.

[Galaxy]

Interesting combination:









72,000 miles €46,999.

[giant_mtb]

^ Interesting that they decided not to put a center screen on it because they know it will look ridiculous 50 years from now.

That look of dread at the end when he floors it for several seconds and the police car shows up. I'm assuming he was well into into an area where money alone will not pay for the ticket.

Yeah, I dig the screen-less-ness.  They're so pervasive now, and he (and Bugatti) is right...a screen from even just 5 years (or one model generation back) can look atrocious.  One in particular that comes to mind is the (non-nav) 2nd gen Equinox. 



Bleh.  It's not horrible, but they looked outdated even when they first came out.

[12,000 RPM]

I think as long as the software can be updated, screens will be fine. PArticularly the smartphone integration. I don't see a mass migration to voice commands or holograms in the future, and screens are pretty close to the max resolution we can see at screen distance.

[MrH]

Wife's 2012 Tuscon with navigation looks awwwwful. S2000 actually still looks ok without a screen. I just have a big magnetic arm that holds my phone, then I have an after market single DIN stereo that I Bluetooth to.

[Soup DeVille]

Wife's 2012 Tuscon with navigation looks awwwwful. S2000 actually still looks ok without a screen. I just have a big magnetic arm that holds my phone, then I have an after market single DIN stereo that I Bluetooth to.

I really prefer the radio in the station wagon (a pioneer DIN unit with bluetooth) to the Land Cruiser's screen, even with the aftermarket bluetooth adapter.

[MrH]

I really prefer the radio in the station wagon (a pioneer DIN unit with bluetooth) to the Land Cruiser's screen, even with the aftermarket bluetooth adapter.

Now that CarPlay is getting waze, all future cars will pretty much have to have CarPlay for me to consider.

[12,000 RPM]

AA is a must for the next car. Interestingly enough the Chinese have come up with some pretty slick integrations with IDrive and the like....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nf_NaSzfqI

But it's the Wild Wild East as far as quality and technical support go. Would be great if the OEMs themselves provided upgrades. Big market and easy money.

[FoMoJo]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/autos/news/the-"original"-lt5-and-what-could-have-been/ar-AAz1TJ1

The "Original" LT5 & What Could Have Been

[Morris Minor]

Excellent post.  The '50s and '60s were my era for cars.  The '50s were a lot of fun because, in the mid to late '50s, shoe box Fords, Chevys, Dodges, et al were available for about $300 and less which any greaser could afford.  The idea then was to make them as unique as possible which usually meant stripping off all the chrome, filling in the holes with body filler and painting them with several cans of areosol spray; often just primer.  Doing other mods was just too expensive for most of us.  However, anything with a 6 to 8 year old flat head usually ran just fine.  Mine was a '51 Mercury that is still among the favourite cars I ever had.

The '60s were another story.  The horsepower wars.  Unfortunately, I was married at the time and had to compromise.  However, I was able to persuade my wife of the time, that a Mustang was a perfect family car and settled for a new '66 Mustang notch back with a 289; just the 2 barrel version.  I would've given most anything for a HiPo, but it wasn't in the budget.  At that time as well, the manufacturers were into racing in a big way and that was part of the fun.  Slightly modified production cars in NASCAR, highly modified production engines in the INDY series, even Ford sponsored F1 engines.  Of course the World Sportscar Championships, Le Mans, etc.  All things cars was getting better and better into the late '60s and I traded in the '66 Mustang for a new '70 Mach I, 351 Cleveland.  Very underrated engine.  We were all excited about how the new engines were going to compete in NASCAR.  Then it all fell apart.

In the '70s, I reverted to buying used '60s sports cars and had absolutely no interest in anything the Big 3 were producing; though I did end up buying a '78 Bronco. Things didn't start looking up again until the '80s.  A friend bought an '83 Mustang and I was impressed that it was able to lay down a bit of rubber.  Promising, but too many things had changed.

I used to have this obsessive on-the-spectrum fascination with cars: it started when i was about five and went through to my mid-thirties. I could (still can) name every British, French & German car of 60s through the early 90s. But it just went off the boil. I think it coincided with the jolt of moving here to the USA and simultaneously dealing with very young kids.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Wife's 2012 Tuscon with navigation looks awwwwful.

Imagine how my Navi unit (circa 2004) looks in the GS!!!! 

[dazzleman]

College housemate of mine works for GM performance. He's got a CTS-V.  He's always sending me snaps of sweet ass Corvettes and shit in his employee parking lot. He's such a bro, but in the best muscle car kinda way.

One of the guys on my team at work told me that I have a good rapport with bros.  He's a bit of a bro himself so I took it as a compliment.

Who wouldn't like sweet ass 'vettes?   I wish I weren't too practical to get a car that I don't really need.  It would be cool that won one.

[dazzleman]

I used to have this obsessive on-the-spectrum fascination with cars: it started when i was about five and went through to my mid-thirties. I could (still can) name every British, French & German car of 60s through the early 90s. But it just went off the boil. I think it coincided with the jolt of moving here to the USA and simultaneously dealing with very young kids.

I used to know all the brands, models, lines etc.  Now I don't know crap.  Too many different brands and many seem to look really similar.  I find I can't contribute to strictly model-based discussions anymore other than in a very narrow range.  I've gotten that way with music too.

[Raza]

Great for getting you from A to B, slamming on the brakes for you so you don't rearend the car in front of you and keeping you in your lane so you can text your friends while browsing your Spotify playlist.

Great unless you'd prefer to shift for yourself.  Or enjoy crisp handling and steering feedback.  Or prefer low-slung stability to tipsy, barstool seating.  I mean, there are still some cars that still offer some of that, but unless you're making well into the 6-figures, you probably won't be able to afford them.

We are going to reach the point where the number of affordable new vehicles that can be legally entered into SCCA or similar amateur racing series will be relatively few.

I remember when I was a teenager and super-obsessed with cars and my dad, who was also big into cars as a teen and early 20-something, mentioned that he kind of lost his obsession as he got older.  I thought it was probably due to the fact that once you've got a family and a regular job, the prospect of owning small, sporty cars (and he owned several as a teen and 20-something, including turbo Corvairs, Corvettes, a Celica, and a 914) was no longer a reality.  Then I ponder my own dwindling obsession, which I attribute to cars changing into things that are the opposite of what appeals to me.  My favorite eras for cars were the early 60s to early 70s (the muscle/pony car golden era), the late 80s to late 90s (peak import sport coupe), and mid 00s to today.  Then I think about what cars were around when my dad was in his teens and what the automotive landscape was like as he got into his 20s and started a family and see a lot of parallels to myself today.

My dad hit his teenage years in the very early 70s.  Peak muscle and pony car years before the feds clamped down on emissions.  By the time he was old enough to afford his own car, the malaise era had just started but there were tons of golden era Mustangs, Camaros, GM A-bodies, Torinos, even Corvettes out there that weren't classics yet and weren't considered anything special so they could be picked up at a reasonable price.  As the Malaise era dragged on, those golden era cars got older and more tired.  Then the sculpted designs of the 60s and 70s gave way to boxy designs of the 80s and the FWD revolution.  Peak Malaise era hit while my dad was in his mid 20s.  I'd have lost interest in cars too.

I got interested in cars in my early teens.  It was the mid-90s, so peak import sport coupe.  Every brand had at least one small, swoopy, affordable 2-door.  You had the Scirocco/Corrado, the Integra, the CRX, the MX3, MX6, Probe, Beretta, 240SX, NX2000, MR2, Celica, Eclipse, Talon, Laser, Miata, Daytona.  Then the more serious stuff like the Z32 300ZX, 3000GT, NSX, Supra, FD-3 RX-7, first generation Viper...  Plus the traditional pony cars.  By the late 90s, a lot of those had died off, but they were still plentiful on the used market at prices that a college kid could afford and still had enough life in them that you didn't spend half your life trying to keep them running.  It was during this lull that I entered car ownership age.  After a 5-6 year lull, there was a resurgence of fun to drive cars in the mid 00s.  More in the form of hot hatches rather than uniquely bodied coupes, but the fun to drive spirit was still there.  The Nissan Z came back.  And the RX (albeit not as sexy as before).  The S2000.  The Civic Si coupe came back.  We got the WRX, albeit it wasn't a sexy coupe (never was).  The Lancer Evo.  MkV GTI, while not a sexy as the Scirocco or Corrado, was a solid performer.  The Neon SRT.  The Camaro came back.  The S197 Mustang.  GM made hot versions of their compacts (Cobalt/Ion) and brought out the Skystice.  Toyota revived the MR2 (briefly).  Dodge brought out the Challenger.  Ford gave us hot hatches that were previously reserved for Europe.  We've been riding that wave for nearly 15 years, which is really a pretty long time, so I should be grateful for that much.  Longer than the previous Good Times for enthusiasts.  But now we're seeing those disappear in favor of ubiquitous 2-box SUVs/CUVs and soulless hybrids, all laden with driver aids and tech that detracts from the driving experience.

[68_427]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/autos/news/the-"original"-lt5-and-what-could-have-been/ar-AAz1TJ1

The "Original" LT5 & What Could Have Been

Just read this last month.  Love it