C&D Lightning Lap 2014

[FoMoJo]

It's not what speed you reach, it's the strain on the engine. And I highly doubt an insurance company would be happy to pay out on an accident there.

...and, obviously, some engines strain more than others.

[GoCougs]

So do you guys know how an engine is made, or how bits of metal ruin an engine?

You will be unsuccessful in trying to paint the GM small block V8 as dainty - GM's made the best Detroit V8 since the debut of the 2nd gen LT1 in 1992, pooprods and all.

[12,000 RPM]

So do you guys know how an engine is made, or how bits of metal ruin an engine?

Maybe so, maybe no, but I'm certain of the circumstances called for it you would, even though you don't.

[FoMoJo]

So do you guys know how an engine is made, or how bits of metal ruin an engine?

You will be unsuccessful in trying to paint the GM small block V8 as dainty - GM's made the best Detroit V8 since the debut of the 2nd gen LT1 in 1992, pooprods and all.

Of course piston slap is an indication of quality.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Of course piston slap is an indication of quality.

But it goes away after 10 minutes, so whats the big deal.

[r0tor]

So do you guys know how an engine is made, or how bits of metal ruin an engine?

You will be unsuccessful in trying to paint the GM small block V8 as dainty - GM's made the best Detroit V8 since the debut of the 2nd gen LT1 in 1992, pooprods and all.

Please tell me how engines are made 

[FoMoJo]

But it goes away after 10 minutes, so whats the big deal.

...when it doesn't.  It's a matter of quality.  Granted, the parts...pistons, cylinders...are, generally, withing spec but there is always slight variance.  It's a matter of integrity and quality control to match them so the fit is more precise. 

[FlatBlackCaddy]

...when it doesn't.  It's a matter of quality.  Granted, the parts...pistons, cylinders...are, generally, withing spec but there is always slight variance.  It's a matter of integrity and quality control to match them so the fit is more precise. 

You're just a ford fanboy, I have no problem with piston slap, or leaking intakes or valves dropping with only 5K on the motor.

[FoMoJo]

You're just a ford fanboy, I have no problem with piston slap, or leaking intakes or valves dropping with only 5K on the motor.

I've always admired the tenacity of GM fans.  No matter how bad things get they still cling to their misconceptions.

[MX793]

I've always admired the tenacity of GM fans.  No matter how bad things get they still cling to their misconceptions.

It's not just GM fans.

[GoCougs]

I can understand the angst to an extent - watching GM rule the V8 roost for the last 20+ years is disappointing for haters for sure, considering the last time Ford was at the forefront of engine tech/performance was the flathead V8 days, and the last time for Chrysler was the end of the muscle/pony car hey day with the 2nd gen Hemi (early '70s).

[SVT666]

I can understand the angst to an extent - watching GM rule the V8 roost for the last 20+ years is disappointing for haters for sure, considering the last time Ford was at the forefront of engine tech/performance was the flathead V8 days, and the last time for Chrysler was the end of the muscle/pony car hey day with the 2nd gen Hemi (early '70s).

GM had the best V8 for 50 years or so, but Ford's V8 is far and away a superior engine. I still love the Chevy V8, but nobody can deny, with a straight face, that the Coyote is superior.

[hotrodalex]

Coyote is superior to which GM engine?

[SVT666]

Coyote is superior to which GM engine?

Their V8.

[GoCougs]

GM had the best V8 for 50 years or so, but Ford's V8 is far and away a superior engine. I still love the Chevy V8, but nobody can deny, with a straight face, that the Coyote is superior.

Sure it can be denied by simply asking for facts and data - how is the Coyote (or Boss 6.2L) superior exactly? The LS3, LT1 and (10-year-old ) LS7 are smaller, simpler, as powerful or (far) more so, and have a better power band (case in point on the latter - despite equivalent peak power and shorter gearing the Mustang 5.0 isn't any quicker than the Camaro SS). The Coyote/Boss is worlds better than the Modular but they need VVL and perhaps more displacement to equal/best GM's V8s.

[GoCougs]

I will say the pooprod design lends itself to theoretically inferior NVH but if you're gonna hang your hat on that, well, that pretty much defeats your point actually .

[SVT666]

Sure it can be denied by simply asking for facts and data - how is the Coyote (or Boss 6.2L) superior exactly? The LS3, LT1 and (10-year-old ) LS7 are smaller, simpler, as powerful or (far) more so, and have a better power band (case in point on the latter - despite equivalent peak power and shorter gearing the Mustang 5.0 isn't any quicker than the Camaro SS). The Coyote/Boss is worlds better than the Modular but they need VVL and perhaps more displacement to equal/best GM's V8s.

The Coyote achieves more power than the LS3 with 1.2L less displacement.  The LS7 is a 7L engine, and it has just 60 more hp than the 5L Coyote.  The LS9 in the ZR1 puts out 24 fewer horsepower than the engine in the GT500 and the LS9 has more displacement.  On top of all that, the Coyote sounds better...not to mention better NVH.  I love GM small blocks, but the Coyote is a better engine.

[MrH]

Ah yes, the old power per liter and sound argument

[SVT666]

Ah yes, the old power per liter and sound argument

He made it first and I debunked what he said.  Not to mention, Coyotes don't blow up when in the hands of auto journalists.

[hotrodalex]

More displacement but what are the external dimensions and weight of the engines?

[Cookie Monster]

More displacement but what are the external dimensions and weight of the engines?

+1

Who cares about displacement when the motor itself is smaller and lighter?

HP/L is for mag racers.

[GoCougs]

The Coyote achieves more power than the LS3 with 1.2L less displacement.  The LS7 is a 7L engine, and it has just 60 more hp than the 5L Coyote.  The LS9 in the ZR1 puts out 24 fewer horsepower than the engine in the GT500 and the LS9 has more displacement.  On top of all that, the Coyote sounds better...not to mention better NVH.  I love GM small blocks, but the Coyote is a better engine.

Not sure where you're getting your stats.

The LS3 is 426 - 436 hp depending on application. The Coyote is 412 - 440 hp depending on application. The LS7 is 505 hp in all applications. You conveniently did not mention the LT1 at 455 - 460 hp depending on application. The 5.4L S/C ain't anything close to the Coyote (but it is a bit more powerful than the LS9, so you can have 1 out of 4 ). In all cases the GM V8 is smaller and simpler. 

Like I said, if the only facts and data are superior sound (subjective) and NVH (who buys a pony or performance car for NVH, and this can be subjective too) well, you've proven my point . The Coyote needs VVL and/or more displacement to rationally be called "superior" ("far and away" or otherwise) to GM's LS/LT motors.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Sure it can be denied by simply asking for facts and data - how is the Coyote (or Boss 6.2L) superior exactly? The LS3, LT1 and (10-year-old ) LS7 are smaller, simpler, as powerful or (far) more so, and have a better power band (case in point on the latter - despite equivalent peak power and shorter gearing the Mustang 5.0 isn't any quicker than the Camaro SS). The Coyote/Boss is worlds better than the Modular but they need VVL and perhaps more displacement to equal/best GM's V8s.

The LS7 is a phenomenal motor. It's too bad they have a defective head design that drops valves and nukes motors in as little as 5 thousand miles(sometimes you get as much as 20K out of them).

Other than that minor issue they are badass.

GO GM!!!!!!!

[GoCougs]

Ah yes, the old power per liter and sound argument

+1

Who cares about displacement when the motor itself is smaller and lighter?

HP/L is for mag racers.

Well, there is some theory behind it. More hp/L = lower pumping losses = inherently more efficient engine. In 2014 what with VVT, VVL, DI and sky high compression ratios, it doesn't mean much though, esp. in the case whereby the engine with the lower hp/L is smaller, lighter, simpler, and has equivalent or more power.

[GoCougs]

The LS7 is a phenomenal motor. It's too bad they have a defective head design that drops valves and nukes motors in as little as 5 thousand miles(sometimes you get as much as 20K out of them).

Other than that minor issue they are badass.

GO GM!!!!!!!

Well, if owners would stop putting in custom cams it wouldn't be a problem  .

A factory engine these days is a highly engineered system with millions of engineering $$$ behind it. Billy Bob swapping in a Crane Cam from Summit Racing is asking for trouble, esp. with the sodium-filled (i.e., hollow) valves and extremely toleranced valve train needed to get a pooprod motor to reliably spin 7,000 RPM.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Well, if owners would stop putting in custom cams it wouldn't be a problem  .

A factory engine these days is a highly engineered system with millions of engineering $$$ behind it. Billy Bob swapping in a Crane Cam from Summit Racing is asking for trouble, esp. with the sodium-filled (i.e., hollow) valves and extremely toleranced valve train needed to get a pooprod motor to reliably spin 7,000 RPM.

Funny, alot of the failures are on bone stock motors.

But I'm sure that's the load that GM shot in your face and you're more than happy to just gobble it up.

[GoCougs]

Funny, alot of the failures are on bone stock motors.

But I'm sure that's the load that GM shot in your face and you're more than happy to just gobble it up.

Do you know how a cam and valve train works; pooprod, OHC or otherwise?

[FlatBlackCaddy]

.

[GoCougs]

Sure I do

The cam moves from cylinder to cylinder once every other even duration and pushes against the intake which causes the valve to rotate open and let the air into the piston. The piston blows the air out into the combustion chamber where the heat from the hot power steerage fluid ignites the air and causes a small nuclear reaction pushing the valve closed and causing the piston to turn over and suck more air.

It's very simple. Kind of like you

.

C'mon man, that's somewhere between JV and the WNBA. You can do better.

[SVT666]

Not sure where you're getting your stats.

The LS3 is 426 - 436 hp depending on application. The Coyote is 412 - 440 hp depending on application. The LS7 is 505 hp in all applications. You conveniently did not mention the LT1 at 455 - 460 hp depending on application. The 5.4L S/C ain't anything close to the Coyote (but it is a bit more powerful than the LS9, so you can have 1 out of 4 ). In all cases the GM V8 is smaller and simpler. 

Like I said, if the only facts and data are superior sound (subjective) and NVH (who buys a pony or performance car for NVH, and this can be subjective too) well, you've proven my point . The Coyote needs VVL and/or more displacement to rationally be called "superior" ("far and away" or otherwise) to GM's LS/LT motors.

Coyote is a smaller displacement engine producing the same or more horsepower.  Keep inventing BS data Cougs.  You proved my point in your first line.  Coyote makes more power (depending on application) and is 1.2L smaller.

GM doesn't publish dimensions or weights, but I found on GM Authority that the 6.2L LS3 found in the Corvette Grand Sport is 466 lbs.  Ford publishes weights and dimensional drawings right on their website and the Ford Coyote 5.0L is 444 lbs and is 29" wide, 29" high, and 26" long.