We need a new sub forum for "The Future"....

[Galaxy]

This thing looks awesome from the side and there are some cool details, but it's trying too hard.
But man, from the side, it looks amazing.

I actually think the side profil is the most problematic.

[MrH]

U get a 911 for free

  It just hasn't been pooped out yet.

Seriously, you guys completely ruined the look of this car for me now.

[MexicoCityM3]

  It just hasn't been pooped out yet.

Seriously, you guys completely ruined the look of this car for me now.

It goes away after a few days.

[MexicoCityM3]

2x the cost of a C7 or M4, or roughly the cost of a 911 turbo ... For what?  All that fiber but it's still not that light.  I'd be worried about reliability/service/maintenance costs and resale value (and I don't normally care about resale) as it ages.


I don't see the point.

It's a halo car. It's very different in its approach to anything else on the market except hypercars that cost 10x as much.

It looks as exotic if not more than those hypercars and has very similar technology (except for the total amount of hp).

I wouldn't worry about resale, it will be rare and part of the "first generation" of sports full plug-in hybrids. Future collectible (many years away though). Reliability, well, it's a MINI 3 pot in the back and an electric motor in front. Carbon fiber and aluminium will last forever and never rust. Just don't crash. Ever.

I love the tech and the nerdness of it. I am 100% sure I'd have more fun driving this than any alternative every day. Only on track days would I regret getting it.

[GoCougs]

Market share isn't everything, and doesnt take into account that the whole market is growing too.

And your projections are probably off by about 10-20 years if that.

Market share is a lot however esp. in indicating trends. If the USDM was shrinking (i.e., likely due to some sort of financial calamity) hybrid/electric market share would have likely fallen even further since they cost more than average and their fundamental value proposition is not financial.

10-20 years? Nah, the new gen compacts are now in the low 40s and midsizers into the low 30s, and the path to doing better is easy - less weight, CVT/more gears, higher CR, better engine design, tech like start/stop and cylinder deactivation, electric accessories, improved tire tech, etc.

[Lebowski]

It goes away after a few days.

That's good. My dogs' poops can take weeks to fully break down.

[12,000 RPM]

Market share is a lot however esp. in indicating trends. If the USDM was shrinking (i.e., likely due to some sort of financial calamity) hybrid/electric market share would have likely fallen even further since they cost more than average and their fundamental value proposition is not financial.

Prius US market share peaked in 2009, I dont have the time to look into it further or draw conclusions. Maybe Prius buyers have more $$$ and kept buying, who the f knows.

10-20 years? Nah, the new gen compacts are now in the low 40s and midsizers into the low 30s, and the path to doing better is easy - less weight, CVT/more gears, higher CR, better engine design, tech like start/stop and cylinder deactivation, electric accessories, improved tire tech, etc.

New gen compacts are barely grazing 40 highway. Lower weight is offset by cars growing (i.e. today's Civic = yesterday's Accord), and to a large degree cars are not getting lighter (modern Civic = ~2900lbs, 20 year old Accord = ~2900 lbs). Over the last 3-4 years companies have tapped heavily into most available techs (CVTs, DI, active aero, start stop etc) largely to beat... dun dun dunnnnnn... govt regs on emissions and fuel economy. Accord was averaging a 1 MPG combined increase each generation from 1990-2007, then from the 8th gen to the 9th gen it jumped 6 MPG. Why? Honda threw DI & CVT at it, most likely after Obama signed the new CAFE regs into place in 2010 when the current Accord was in design. W/o that u can bet ur bottom dollar the current Accord would probably still have a 5AT and the trusty old port injected K24, making a combined 24-25 MPG instead of its current 30

If its so "easy".... where do you think Honda can pull another 6 MPG from for the next generation, without making the car smaller (again) or going full hybrid? OEMs were coasting on fuel economy up till the recession... we are not going to see another leap like we did over the last ~5 yrs as there is no more low hanging fruit.

[2o6]

I actually think the side profil is the most problematic.

It looks very FWD.

[Raza]

It looks very FWD.

[r0tor]

I'm missing the point of an "exotic" with just average power and performance for a shit ton of money.

[Raza]

Too much dewlap.

Dewlap?

[12,000 RPM]

I'm missing the point of an "exotic" with just average power and performance for a shit ton of money.

350 HP is average

I got this month's MT issue last night for their Best Driver's Car review. Maybe hybrids are not the future of performance. This thing drained its battery in like 3 laps at Laguna Seca. Mind you that is a pretty slow, turn focused track. It would prob drain the battery over 1 lap of VIR

[FoMoJo]

Dewlap?

Excessive folds of skin.  Perhaps it has some aerodynamic purpose, but it looks crappy.

[Payman]

Excessive folds of skin.  Perhaps it has some aerodynamic purpose, but it looks crappy.

This car will be a bitch to wash and wax.

[2o6]

The A-pillar is very close to the front wheel, and the wheel/cowl relationship reminds me of a good proportioned FWD coupe. There's also a fair amount of front overhang for a car that (doesn't?) have an engine up front.

[SVT666]

I couldn't imagine trying to wash this thing after a rain storm or after driving it in the snow.

[MexicoCityM3]

I couldn't imagine trying to wash this thing after a rain storm or after driving it in the snow.

This car will be a bitch to wash and wax.

It's a 130K car. The owner most likely can afford to have it washed.

[12,000 RPM]

The FWD thing is not that weird. Mid engine cars tend to have a lot of front overhang and cab forward cabins... like FWD cars. There have been FWD cars intentionally styled like mid engine sports cars... biggies that come to mind are the 92-96 Prelude and Civic Del Sol.

I'm really bummed about the battery thing. The scary thing is this thing has a 5kWh battery... the LaFerrari's battery is 2.3kWh, the McLaren P1's is 4.7kWh.

[MexicoCityM3]

350 HP is average

I got this month's MT issue last night for their Best Driver's Car review. Maybe hybrids are not the future of performance. This thing drained its battery in like 3 laps at Laguna Seca. Mind you that is a pretty slow, turn focused track. It would prob drain the battery over 1 lap of VIR

Randy Prost of 1M hating fame however did say that this was the car he enjoyed the most or something of that sort. It's not a track car.

[MexicoCityM3]

The FWD thing is not that weird. Mid engine cars tend to have a lot of front overhang and cab forward cabins... like FWD cars. There have been FWD cars intentionally styled like mid engine sports cars... biggies that come to mind are the 92-96 Prelude and Civic Del Sol.

I'm really bummed about the battery thing. The scary thing is this thing has a 5kWh battery... the LaFerrari's battery is 2.3kWh, the McLaren P1's is 4.7kWh.

It's not as if these cars turn into pumpkins when the battery goes.

[2o6]

There have been FWD cars intentionally styled like mid engine sports cars... biggies that come to mind are the 92-96 Prelude and Civic Del Sol.

I might give you the Del Sol, but you're smoking crack in saying the Prelude looks anything mid engined.



A good example would be the Cadillac ELR, and more specifically the Converj Concept.

[SVT666]

It's not as if these cars turn into pumpkins when the battery goes.

Actually they do.  McLaren stated that the P1 is virtually undriveable without the electric motors because the turbo lag is horrific.

[r0tor]

350 HP is average

I got this month's MT issue last night for their Best Driver's Car review. Maybe hybrids are not the future of performance. This thing drained its battery in like 3 laps at Laguna Seca. Mind you that is a pretty slow, turn focused track. It would prob drain the battery over 1 lap of VIR

350hp...
For an exotic it's anemic
For a sports car its average
For a family sedan its a bit above average
For a $130k car, its well below average...

[12,000 RPM]

350hp...
For an exotic it's anemic
For a sports car its average
For a family sedan its a bit above average
For a $130k car, its well below average...

From what I remember, at full power it hits 0-60 in the high 3s. It hits .91gs on shitty 195/215 F/R eco tires... on actual performance tires sized for the car's weight it would easily clear 1g. And there are no other plug in EV sports cars. Only legit gripe IMO is its charge runs out after like 8 miles of track driving... but when its charged its as fast as a 911 or w/e.

Strange that an RX-8 driver is complaining about not enough HP Better this thing have a good chassis and adequate speed than be an overpowered dynamic mess like an F-Type R. U can always add more power, u can't fix a mismatched bad chassis

[r0tor]

If an RX8 cost over $100k I would expect it to have some power

[12,000 RPM]

A 911 Carrera makes 350HP and is half a second slower to 60

350HP is fine for a carbon fiber plug in hybrid

[280Z Turbo]

Actually they do.  McLaren stated that the P1 is virtually undriveable without the electric motors because the turbo lag is horrific.

The owners will just take their wheelbarrows full of money to the McLaren factory and buy a new battery. Who gives a shit?

[Raza]

It's a 130K car. The owner most likely can afford to have it washed.

Yeah, if you're buying this, you're probably not washing it yourself. 

[Raza]

I might give you the Del Sol, but you're smoking crack in saying the Prelude looks anything mid engined.



A good example would be the Cadillac ELR, and more specifically the Converj Concept.

It looks like a mid-engine car.  Which isn't surprising, because it's a mid-engine car. 














Unless you want to tell me that all of them look like front wheel drive cars, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. 

[Payman]

Lol...

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/the-i8-secret-bmw-doesnt-want-you-to-know-1644919816/+travis