Do insurance companies still buy radar/lidar for police departments?

[dazzleman]

Or out-of-country. Then you can really have basically zero consequences other than the fine. You should tag along with me on on of my 200kph visits to Leon. The autobahn is nothing.

Somehow I think the consequences for a gringo getting nailed at that speed in Mexico would be worse.than some demerit points back at home.....

[MexicoCityM3]

Somehow I think the consequences for a gringo getting nailed at that speed in Mexico would be worse.than some demerit points back at home.....

No way in hell you'd get locked up. It just would be somewhat expensive. $500 tops.

[dazzleman]

No way in hell you'd get locked up. It just would be somewhat expensive. $500 tops.

I could live with that.  It sounds sort of fun.  We'll worth the money.

[Rupert]

How would they assess risk though?

I think it would be better to just to ban hiking rates off of moving violations. Insurers pay out based on accidents.... so accidents should be the basis of rates.

Speed limits should be adjusted to reflect modern car capabilities and general driver speed sentiments as well. 10 MPH over is pretty much the norm everywhere.

No it's not. People in the northwest drive slow as fuck. Average speed around [this] town is probably two under the limit, and on the freeway, probably about the limit or a couple over.

[Soup DeVille]

Somehow I think the consequences for a gringo getting nailed at that speed in Mexico would be worse.than some demerit points back at home.....

There are two types of activities in Mexico: legal ones, and expensive ones.

[dazzleman]

There are two types of activities in Mexico: legal ones, and expensive ones.

That's a good way of looking at it.

[hotrodalex]

No it's not. People in the northwest drive slow as fuck. Average speed around [this] town is probably two under the limit, and on the freeway, probably about the limit or a couple over.

15 out of the 18 Goodguys car shows include an autocross. Wanna guess which shows don't have it? Both shows in Washington.

[Rupert]

I don't think those two things are related.

[hotrodalex]

I just think it's funny.

There's also a lot of Mopar guys in the PNW and Mopar guys are usually afraid to drive their cars hard. Don't want the window sticker to fall off!

[Rupert]

There are SCCA autocrosses all over the place, though. AKA, real racing.

[Eye of the Tiger]

There are SCCA autocrosses all over the place, though. AKA, real racing.

Real racing... against cones... that don't move unless you run them.over.

[hotrodalex]

Real racing... against cones... that don't move unless you run them.over.

Or have sidepipes.

[Rupert]

Real racing... against cones... that don't move unless you run them.over.

This is relative to autocross with huge overpowered American iron.

[hotrodalex]

This is relative to autocross with huge overpowered American iron.

Most of them are $200k road-legal race cars and would whup the majority of SCCA cars (a lot of the drivers do SSCCA as well)

[GoCougs]

How would they assess risk though?

I think it would be better to just to ban hiking rates off of moving violations. Insurers pay out based on accidents.... so accidents should be the basis of rates.

Speed limits should be adjusted to reflect modern car capabilities and general driver speed sentiments as well. 10 MPH over is pretty much the norm everywhere.

I don't know exactly how risk would be assessed - let the free market decide. Could be anything from an affidavit on driving record, to court history, to criminal record, to credit history, to education level, to career. Or, all of those, or none of those, or nothing at all (and insurance becomes no fault).

No, no bans, or, the only ban that should be instituted is giving insurance companies direct line to one's driving record. 

[dazzleman]

I don't know exactly how risk would be assessed - let the free market decide. Could be anything from an affidavit on driving record, to court history, to criminal record, to credit history, to education level, to career. Or, all of those, or none of those, or nothing at all (and insurance becomes no fault).

No, no bans, or, the only ban that should be instituted is giving insurance companies direct line to one's driving record.

What's the difference between all those things, and a direct line to somebody's driving record?  There seems to be a distinction without a difference here.

What about those new sensors that some insurance companies are asking people to take, that record the individual's driving practices?

Reality is, as CLKid pointed out earlier, there's no perfect system and never will be.  Getting nailed for moving violations is pretty random, but it does provide some indication of how a person views driving responsibilities.

The current system works fine for those of us who have good credit, few accidents and scant moving violations.

[12,000 RPM]

I don't know exactly how risk would be assessed - let the free market decide. Could be anything from an affidavit on driving record, to court history, to criminal record, to credit history, to education level, to career. Or, all of those, or none of those, or nothing at all (and insurance becomes no fault).

No, no bans, or, the only ban that should be instituted is giving insurance companies direct line to one's driving record.

This makes zero sense. Seems your only gripe is that the free market didn't decide. But none of the alternatives you suggested are any more rational.

[GoCougs]

What's the difference between all those things, and a direct line to somebody's driving record?  There seems to be a distinction without a difference here.

What about those new sensors that some insurance companies are asking people to take, that record the individual's driving practices?

Reality is, as CLKid pointed out earlier, there's no perfect system and never will be.  Getting nailed for moving violations is pretty random, but it does provide some indication of how a person views driving responsibilities.

The current system works fine for those of us who have good credit, few accidents and scant moving violations.

This makes zero sense. Seems your only gripe is that the free market didn't decide. But none of the alternatives you suggested are any more rational.

The current system is predicated on monopolies and corporatism = huge distortions in the market, particularly, assessing risk. Time and time again goofy stuff like "speeding" and HOV lane violation have been proven to not be dangerous.

The "perfect" (i.e., rational) system is one what the market decides - the market would NOT decide the current system, that is for damned sure. My hunch is, again, things would primarily tend toward assessing risk based on Things That Matter - DUI, reckless driving, eluding police, etc., and of course accidents and claims.

The sad reality of the current state of traffic enforcement is over emphasis on things that don't matter; speeding, speed traps and click-it/ticket campaigns, etc.; diverts resources away from things that DO matter like DUI, drowsy driving, distracted driving, etc.

[GoCougs]

The current system works great for me too. Owing to career, credit score, education level, etc., I have the largest discount possible through my insurance company (90th percentile driver) and I use traffic lawyers with abandon. 

[dazzleman]

The current system works great for me too. Owing to career, credit score, education level, etc., I have the largest discount possible through my insurance company (90th percentile driver) and I use traffic lawyers with abandon.

When did you last use a traffic lawyer?  Seems like a while.

[GoCougs]

Probably 3 years. I use the HOV lane daily, though total mileage is way down as I've found a quicker route to work. I've gone right past state troopers but not pulled over - helps that this time of year in this area it's dark for both the morning and evening commutes.

[dazzleman]

Probably 3 years. I use the HOV lane daily, though total mileage is way down as I've found a quicker route to work. I've gone right past state troopers but not pulled over - helps that this time of year in this area it's dark for both the morning and evening commutes.

HOV lane tickets are totally lame anyway.  Maybe you need to drive faster. 

[GoCougs]

But the benefit of HOV violation is near infinite. It's my favorite violation by far.

I pretty much never pay attention to speed limits but thing is in a good many cases I think speed limits are about right (or within 5-10 mph of being right). I will typically drive 10-15 mph over on the interstate but so many others are doing so as well and I now rarely if ever see state troopers speed trappin'. My hope is they've gotten smart and are de-emphasizing things that don't matter (speeding) in favor of things that do (DUI, reckless driving, gross equipment violations, esp. driving in the dark without headlights which I see pretty much every day).

[dazzleman]

But the benefit of HOV violation is near infinite. It's my favorite violation by far.

I pretty much never pay attention to speed limits but thing is in a good many cases I think speed limits are about right (or within 5-10 mph of being right). I will typically drive 10-15 mph over on the interstate but so many others are doing so as well and I now rarely if ever see state troopers speed trappin'. My hope is they've gotten smart and are de-emphasizing things that don't matter (speeding) in favor of things that do (DUI, reckless driving, gross equipment violations, esp. driving in the dark without headlights which I see pretty much every day).

When I got my last speeding ticket, the cop told me that if I kept it to 15 over or less, I wouldn't be stopped.

[hotrodalex]

Utah HOV lanes have like 0 enforcement methods. It's hilarious.

[Klackamas]

I'm told ticketing for speeding in an unmarked car in Georgia is illegal, but not enforced by the state.
Must have 3 inch lettering back and sides. Can that be right?

[Klackamas]

Sho 'nuf


O.C.G.A. § 40-8-91

GEORGIA CODE
Copyright 2009 by The State of Georgia
All rights reserved.

*** Current through the 2009 Regular Session ***

TITLE 40. MOTOR VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC
CHAPTER 8. EQUIPMENT AND INSPECTION OF MOTOR VEHICLES
ARTICLE 1. EQUIPMENT GENERALLY
PART 5. EQUIPMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND EMERGENCY VEHICLES

O.C.G.A. § 40-8-91 (2009)

§ 40-8-91. Marking and equipment of law enforcement vehicles; motorist allowed to continue to safe location before stopping for law enforcement officer vehicles

(a) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this Code section, any motor vehicle which is used on official business by any person authorized to make arrests for traffic violations in this state, or any municipality or county thereof, shall be distinctly marked on each side and the back with the name of the agency responsible therefor, in letters not less than four inches in height.

(b) Any motor vehicle, except as hereinafter provided in this subsection, used by any employee of the Georgia State Patrol for the purpose of enforcing the traffic laws of this state shall be distinctly painted, marked, and equipped in such manner as shall be prescribed by the commissioner of public safety pursuant to this Code section. The commissioner in prescribing the manner in which such vehicles shall be painted, marked, or equipped shall:

(1) Require that all such motor vehicles be painted in a two-toned uniform color. The hood, top, and the top area not to exceed 12 inches below the bottom of the window opening thereof shall be a light gray color and the remaining portion of said motor vehicle shall be painted a dark blue color;

(2) Require that any such motor vehicle be equipped with at least one lamp which when lighted shall display a flashing or revolving colored light visible under normal atmospheric conditions for a distance of 500 feet from the front and rear of such vehicle; and

(3) Require that any such motor vehicle shall be distinctly marked on each side and the back thereof with the wording "State Patrol" in letters not less than six inches in height of a contrasting color from the background color of the motor vehicle. Notwithstanding the above provisions, it shall be permissible for the commissioner to allow not more than five motor vehicles per State Patrol post to be employed in traffic law enforcement which are painted any solid color designated by the commissioner and marked with "State Patrol" in six inch high letters of a contrasting color.

(c) It shall be unlawful for any person, except persons lawfully entitled to own vehicles for law enforcement purposes, to paint, mark, or equip any motor vehicle in the same manner prescribed by this Code section or by the commissioner for law enforcement vehicles.

(d) When a law enforcement vehicle is disposed of, or is not in use for law enforcement, the lettering and colored lights must be removed. Any person using such vehicle for personal use prior to removing colored lights and lettering shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

(e) Whenever a motorist driving on the roadways of this state is directed to stop by a law enforcement officer in a law enforcement vehicle marked as required under this Code section, the motorist may continue to drive until a reasonably safe location for stopping is reached. Such motorist shall indicate to the officer his or her intent to proceed to a safe location by displaying the vehicle's flashing lights or turn signal. In proceeding to a safe location, the motorist shall observe the posted maximum speed limit.

(f) An otherwise lawful arrest shall not be invalidated or in any manner affected by failure to comply with this Code section.

HISTORY: Ga. L. 1953, Nov.-Dec. Sess., p. 556, § 107A; Ga. L. 1966, p. 166, § 1; Ga. L. 1976, p. 208, § 1; Ga. L. 1986, p. 802, §§ 1-3; Ga. L. 1987, p. 3, § 405; Ga. L. 2006, p. 231, § 3/SB 64; Ga. L. 2006, p. 255, § 1/SB 454.

[MX793]

I'm told ticketing for speeding in an unmarked car in Georgia is illegal, but not enforced by the state.
Must have 3 inch lettering back and sides. Can that be right?

NY had issued a similar directive, though it only applied to state police and not local municipalities, due to a series of police impersonation cases.  However, they recently eliminated that directive.

[hounddog]

Of all moving traffic citations given, what % are for materially dangerous behavior - running red lights, illegal turns, tailgating, etc.? My hunch is it's preciously small, with most citations being of the speeding variety which I'd bet in the majority if not most cases is not materially dangerous.

If you are talking nonresidential roads I might be inclined to agree.

For residential areas I would argue speeding is dangerous by the very nature of the environment.

I was surprised to see Alabama roads at 60 most everywhere away from residential and commercial areas.

My problem with speed limits as they are today is that cars are safer and have much better braking and overall handling abilities.  On the flip side of that drivers seem much less well trained and overall much more dangerous, partly because of the seriously reduced driver training, at least equally because of the distractions driver have now.

If the states all got together and outlawed using cell phones while driving, specifically texting, and applied seriously harsh penalties to licenses for violations, not fines but actual progrssively increasing license sanctions I would be fine raising all non-residential prima facia speeds by 10 mph.

[hotrodalex]

Haven't all states banned texting? The problem is with enforcement of that ban. Not the easiest thing to catch.