Motor Trend vid: GT-R NISMO vs Z06

[MexicoCityM3]

It's less about cost and more about what the car(Z06 is).

If I buy a car with:

More HP
More Torque
Better balance
Better brakes
Lower weight
higher grip

I would be concerned something is wrong with it if it loses to a car with significantly less than the above.

I see your point. However, considering the price I'd forgive that. Not the limping.

[r0tor]

By AWD cars using lower gearing?

See my edit, btw. Your assertion that it only makes 550 hp is so wrong it hurts. I would say you should stop now before you embarrass yourself any further, but I don't think that's possible.

Porsche GT3.  475hp in a NA 6 cyljnder.  Rear wing generates 300lbs of down force.  1/4 mile of 11.1@125mph?  Top speed 195mph?

Pretty sad if you pull up to one with your 650hp supercharged V8 Vette and get smoked....

[GoCougs]

Porsche GT3.  475hp in a NA 6 cyljnder.  Rear wing generates 300lbs of down force.  1/4 mile of 11.1@125mph?  Top speed 195mph?

Pretty sad if you pull up to one with your 650hp supercharged V8 Vette and get smoked....

lol - GT3 weighs ~3,150 lbs, has PDK and launch control, has rear engine, and has gearing about like the GTR (1st gear of 14.9:1 vs. Z06 of 7.8:1)...

[GoCougs]

Do those calculators factor in transmissions, drag and drivetrains?

And lol @ bringing up the S7... its 600lbs lighter, mid engined, and makes 100 more HP lol. Very relevant.

Its not so much that I disagree that the Z06 has problems, its that you are so terrible at getting your point across. Online trap speed calculators? Lol.

He did the same in defending EcoBoost in the F150 vs. Silverado thread. He has a point, then at some point falls down a rabbit hole, and then comes out the other side with so much wrongness.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I see your point. However, considering the price I'd forgive that. Not the limping.

A car that has a significant advantage in every performance category shouldn't loose to cars that it vastly(should) outperform.

That's just a poorly designed car, it's something that I would not forgive. Certainly not at a 6 figure price point.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

The article was an ok read, but I guess it seemed alittle too much like justifying their (predetermined?) ranking.

"The Turbo S is the best car here."

Pretty much sums the article up for me. I always figured these comparo's where about the cars, and finding the best one. Not injecting a price handicap in to position the cars as they(or the manufacturer) sees fit. If that's the case(price factored) then anyone of these comparo's is nothing more than an elaborate sales brochure. Swinging favor from one car to the next based on who's the most recent one on the market.

[r0tor]

lol - GT3 weighs ~3,150 lbs, has PDK and launch control, has rear engine, and has gearing about like the GTR (1st gear of 14.9:1 vs. Z06 of 7.8:1)...

THE CORVETTE HAS LAUNCH CONTROL DUMB DUMB

...so what your saying in this post is Porsche knows how to engineer a sports car, GM does not.

[MrH]

Viper makes 650HP, weighs less, goes about the same as the Z06

Pretty obvious what's happening.... AWD/DSG cars trap higher because they have 0ms shifts and quicker hole shots, and the Z07 has a lot more drag

+1

Calculators? 3,400 lbs?

You quite simply do not understand either torque or horsepower nor understand how a car gets on down the strip *r0tor shrug*.

+1

[GoCougs]

THE CORVETTE HAS LAUNCH CONTROL DUMB DUMB

...so what your saying in this post is Porsche knows how to engineer a sports car, GM does not.

So how is it you keep taking these hits but keep coming back for more? Jesus, it's simply unbelievable.

Firstly, M/T launch control and DSG launch control couldn't be any more different. The former modulates throttle to prevent excessive wheel spin the latter dumps clutches at high(er) rpm to maximum effect.

Secondly, a decent driver will beat M/T launch control fairly easily; we all know this.

Third, please read the article. They got the best accel results by not using launch control and simply walking the car off the line.

[hotrodalex]

I think this car shows the gulf between buying a car to show off and buying a car because it's fun. If you want to show off and brag, buy an AWD, DSG, launch control car. If you are secure about your manhood, buy a RWD fun machine. I'd rather drive a Z06 around than a GT-R. (Although a Z51 would probably be even more fun per dollar)

[MexicoCityM3]

If you want to show off and brag, buy an AWD, DSG, launch control car. If you are secure about your manhood, buy a RWD fun machine, invest in driving lessons, learn to drive, and annoy assholes @ the track in the mentioned "show off" cars with your "inferior" car.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I think this car shows the gulf between buying a car to show off and buying a car because it's fun. If you want to show off and brag, buy an AWD, DSG, launch control car. If you are secure about your manhood, buy a RWD fun machine. I'd rather drive a Z06 around than a GT-R. (Although a Z51 would probably be even more fun per dollar)

Why does MC's quote show this line

"invest in driving lessons, learn to drive, and annoy assholes @ the track in the mentioned "show off" cars with your "inferior" car."

Did you change your post when you realized that a driver that invested in driving lessons, learned to drive and went to the track would probably be faster in the "inferior" cars.

Pobst got better times out of the better track car, it wasn't the Z06.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I just want GM to put out a car that I know they are capable of putting out, not a car that they know their fans will accept and defend when they give them excuses.

Odd that makes people like me the hater to some people, or the unreasonable one.

The Z06 should have DESTROYED the nismo gtr, but apparently my standards are too high given the huge advantages afforded to the Z06.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I will annoy you in your well-driven RWD fun machine in my rolling-chicane FWD economy machine.

[SJ_GTI]

I think some of you guys have a mental block.

Folks here generally consider themselves purists, and generally prefer RWD cars with manual transmissions.

Unfortunately the reality is that, for racing, automatics (dual clutch) gearboxes and all wheel drive are simply superior.

The Z06 could very well be the pinnacle of front engine, manual transmission, rear wheel drive cars and it would STILL lose to cars that have DSG's (or PDK's or whatever) and "smart" AWD systems.

The Z06 is not perfect, mind you, but that is not why you are seeing the results you expect/want. Enthusiasts have to simply accept the AWD and DSG can more than overcome more weight and less power.

[MexicoCityM3]

I will annoy you in your well-driven RWD fun machine in my rolling-chicane FWD economy machine.

Yes that would annoy me. It actually happened before I took driving lessons and when I was an - even greater - asshole. On one of my first track outings in the E46 M3 a kid in a Seat Ibiza FR owned me on the twisty bits. Yeah, it was pretty annoying! He was all over me every lap when we got back to the beginning of the main straight. I would pull away and then he would be all over my ass again by the beginning of the next lap.

[MexicoCityM3]

Why does MC's quote show this line

"invest in driving lessons, learn to drive, and annoy assholes @ the track in the mentioned "show off" cars with your "inferior" car."

I did the quote modifying.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I did the quote modifying.

Should have figured, what with all the slow BMW's and all you are probably used to trying to justify things like that.



Next time you're on the track, just keep an eye out in your rearview mirror for those VW's.

[GoCougs]

I think some of you guys have a mental block.

Folks here generally consider themselves purists, and generally prefer RWD cars with manual transmissions.

Unfortunately the reality is that, for racing, automatics (dual clutch) gearboxes and all wheel drive are simply superior.

The Z06 could very well be the pinnacle of front engine, manual transmission, rear wheel drive cars and it would STILL lose to cars that have DSG's (or PDK's or whatever) and "smart" AWD systems.

The Z06 is not perfect, mind you, but that is not why you are seeing the results you expect/want. Enthusiasts have to simply accept the AWD and DSG can more than overcome more weight and less power.

I think enthusiasts have long accepted the advantage of AWD and DSG (and hence lower gearing) in overcoming more weight/less power (well, most of us anyway ).

[hotrodalex]

Very true.

I can give a lot of guys hell on the autocross course even though they have a lot more HP, trick suspension set ups, and sticky tires. I'd rather be the underdog who exceeds expectations than the rich guy who can't drive.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Very true.

I can give a lot of guys hell on the autocross course even though they have a lot more HP, trick suspension set ups, and sticky tires. I'd rather be the underdog who exceeds expectations than the rich guy who can't drive.

What if you are the underdog that shows up with the baddest ride, and you turn out to be the best driver there. Only to completely lose your ass. If that sounds sweet then GM has the car for you.

[12,000 RPM]

Should have figured, what with all the slow BMW's and all you are probably used to trying to justify things like that.



Next time you're on the track, just keep an eye out in your rearview mirror for those VW's.

!!!!

MCM is right though, this is all so silly. Barring MCM Im pretty sure everyone here would shit their pants trying to manhandle a base C7 6MT around a track at 10/10ths. So crying about 3-5 MPH trap speed in a 650* horsepower car is ridiculous. r0tor is a glutton for punishment though, never passes up an opportunity to lose an argument.

I think some of you guys have a mental block.

Folks here generally consider themselves purists, and generally prefer RWD cars with manual transmissions.

Unfortunately the reality is that, for racing, automatics (dual clutch) gearboxes and all wheel drive are simply superior.

The Z06 could very well be the pinnacle of front engine, manual transmission, rear wheel drive cars and it would STILL lose to cars that have DSG's (or PDK's or whatever) and "smart" AWD systems.

The Z06 is not perfect, mind you, but that is not why you are seeing the results you expect/want. Enthusiasts have to simply accept the AWD and DSG can more than overcome more weight and less power.

If the game is bench racing, yeh, more tech is gud. I dont think anyone here, besides r0tor, is in denial of this.

But wat a spec sheet doesnt tell u is how a GT-R looks/feels/drives like a well sorted AWD Altima. Or how meaningless 3-4 MPH on a 125-130 MPH 1/4 trap speed is. Etc. This thread is a demonstration of how lost the priorities of some automotive "enthusiasts" are. "The C7 Z06 does not trap what my calculations estimate! Impeach Obama for bailing out this god awful company!!!!!!" Lets all take a step back, breathe, and appreciate the awesomeness of the performance car market in 2015. Cars including the C7 Z06 have never been better.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

"MCM is right though, this is all so silly. Barring MCM Im pretty sure everyone here would shit their pants trying to manhandle a base C7 6MT around a track at 10/10ths. So crying about 3-5 MPH trap speed in a 650* horsepower car is ridiculous. r0tor is a glutton for punishment though, never passes up an opportunity to lose an argument."

I'm not crying about 1/4 mile times.

I'm just pointing out how F'ed up it is that a car that has every single performance category in it's favor fails to outperform a lesser(numerically) performance car.

I really must be the only one that sees that.

[MexicoCityM3]

!!!!

MCM is right though, this is all so silly. Barring MCM Im pretty sure everyone here would shit their pants trying to manhandle a base C7 6MT around a track at 10/10ths. So crying about 3-5 MPH trap speed in a 650* horsepower car is ridiculous. r0tor is a glutton for punishment though, never passes up an opportunity to lose an argument.
If the game is bench racing, yeh, more tech is gud. I dont think anyone here, besides r0tor, is in denial of this.

You flatter me. I can drive my cars (340hpish) comfortably with all aids off, fast. 650hp is a different animal......oh wait!.......maybe it's only 500hp after all

[MexicoCityM3]

"MCM is right though, this is all so silly. Barring MCM Im pretty sure everyone here would shit their pants trying to manhandle a base C7 6MT around a track at 10/10ths. So crying about 3-5 MPH trap speed in a 650* horsepower car is ridiculous. r0tor is a glutton for punishment though, never passes up an opportunity to lose an argument."

I'm not crying about 1/4 mile times.

I'm just pointing out how F'ed up it is that a car that has every single performance category in it's favor fails to outperform a lesser(numerically) performance car.

I really must be the only one that sees that.

I think you're right. GM is definitely overselling this car with regards to not meeting expectations. What I meant above is that if GM didn´t oversell it and advertised it in line with its real capability, I'd still think it a great buy for the price, except for the limping.

[12,000 RPM]

Im still going to reserve judgement until they test all the different versions of the Z06.

Interesting fact: 911 GT2 RS does the quarter in 11.1@133. Also has a top speed of 209 compared to the Z07's ~185. More proof that aero is the culprit IMO.

[SVT666]

"MCM is right though, this is all so silly. Barring MCM Im pretty sure everyone here would shit their pants trying to manhandle a base C7 6MT around a track at 10/10ths. So crying about 3-5 MPH trap speed in a 650* horsepower car is ridiculous. r0tor is a glutton for punishment though, never passes up an opportunity to lose an argument."

I'm not crying about 1/4 mile times.

I'm just pointing out how F'ed up it is that a car that has every single performance category in it's favor fails to outperform a lesser(numerically) performance car.

I really must be the only one that sees that.

Nope. I see it too.

[SVT666]

But wat a spec sheet doesnt tell u is how a GT-R looks/feels/drives like a well sorted AWD Altima.

More like a really high performance version of the G37x.  That's how it felt to me anyway.

[FoMoJo]

Umm the Z07 is only generating a couple hundred pounds of down force.  Super cars like the Saleen S7 generated 3,000 lbs of down force with far less drag issues.

If this aero package is creating so much drag its making a 650hp car act like a 550hp one, some better be firing their aero engineers.

NASCAR version of Ford's old Windsor push-rod small-block expanded to 427CI generating 550hp.  Makes you wonder how amazing that engine would now be if they had persevered with it.  Thank goodness they opted for modern technology though.

[FlatBlackCaddy]