Motor Trend vid: GT-R NISMO vs Z06

[r0tor]

So how is it you keep taking these hits but keep coming back for more? Jesus, it's simply unbelievable.

Firstly, M/T launch control and DSG launch control couldn't be any more different. The former modulates throttle to prevent excessive wheel spin the latter dumps clutches at high(er) rpm to maximum effect.

Secondly, a decent driver will beat M/T launch control fairly easily; we all know this.

Third, please read the article. They got the best accel results by not using launch control and simply walking the car off the line.

Most M/T launch control systems have a launch rev limiter.  Floor the gas, it revs to the desired rpms and holds, then you dump the clutch and it modulates the gas.  The only difference is the computer dumping the clutch vs your foot.

I guess your saying GM half assed yet another her system on the car?

[FoMoJo]

Wow, just got my mag. C&D gushed over the Z06 like no other and put it into a performance and driving enjoyment category 1 or 2 levels above the other two cars. They also noted lots of wheel spin on the acceleration testing - they had to walk it off the line to get the best results.

Just goes to show that bigger tires can't always compensate for less than adequate suspension.

[AutobahnSHO]

Nope. I see it too.

Me too, but it's fun just watching the butthurt

[r0tor]

Im still going to reserve judgement until they test all the different versions of the Z06.

Interesting fact: 911 GT2 RS does the quarter in 11.1@133. Also has a top speed of 209 compared to the Z07's ~185. More proof that aero is the culprit IMO.

You realize the GT2 RS generates down force too right?

[hotrodalex]

"MCM is right though, this is all so silly. Barring MCM Im pretty sure everyone here would shit their pants trying to manhandle a base C7 6MT around a track at 10/10ths. So crying about 3-5 MPH trap speed in a 650* horsepower car is ridiculous. r0tor is a glutton for punishment though, never passes up an opportunity to lose an argument."

I'm not crying about 1/4 mile times.

I'm just pointing out how F'ed up it is that a car that has every single performance category in it's favor fails to outperform a lesser(numerically) performance car.

I really must be the only one that sees that.

I get what you're saying.

The thing that rubs me wrong is when people assert that GM engineers are idiots and don't know what they're doing. They've be pretty successful in pushing the Corvette to what appears to be the limit of an FR platform - further than almost any other car. You can't just do that without having a very talented team. It's not a perfect car and they can indeed do better, but it's far from shitty. If it wasn't a good car, the reviews wouldn't be so glowingly positive.

[hotrodalex]

Just goes to show that bigger tires can't always compensate for less than adequate suspension.

...what? The suspension of the Z06 is the best part.

[hotrodalex]

You realize the GT2 RS generates down force too right?

"But for the technical prowess, you might be surprised to learn that the Z06 eschews active aero for a far simpler solution: three aero packages in increasing aggressiveness. The first is the Z06's standard equipment, and the second adds a front splitter with end plates, rocker panel extensions, and a spoiler—all of it in carbon fiber, and all of it fixed. The third stage uses the second-stage components as mounts, attaching larger end plates to the splitter and an adjustable wickerbill to the spoiler, like the Z/28's. The Chevy team says there's extra meat on the movable parts should the more serious owners want to drill their own holes. Juechter says that in its most aggressive setting, the Corvette makes more downforce than any other car they've tested in GM's wind tunnel. Some cars GM has tested: Porsche 911 Turbo S, Ferrari 458, McLaren 12C.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1502_2015_chevrolet_corvette_z06_first_test/#ixzz3TRmipUdy"

[r0tor]

The Porsche GTRS cars produce several hundred pounds more down force the the non track edition cars.


Too bad GM doesn't just say what the #s are

[FoMoJo]

...what? The suspension of the Z06 is the best part.

Now that is unfortunate.

[12,000 RPM]

You realize the GT2 RS generates down force too right?

Yes

But how much compared tot he Z07?



Z07 makes more downforce than any car GM has made before and the Z28 makes 440 (dont know at what speed). GT2RS makes 350 at 200 and significantly narrower in profile (~5"). GT2 grips to 1.07g while Z07 grips to 1.19-1.2. So I dont think it's unreasonable to say Z07 is making a shit ton more downforce (and by extension drag) than the GT2RS and pretty much any other car up against it. Again Z07 is the aero track package, regular one will be faster in a straight line.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

No matter how much down force the Z07 makes, apparently it is useless since it negates almost 20-30% of it's HP compared to it's competition.

What is the point of all that down force if it actually results in a negative effect regarding track performance?

[12,000 RPM]

Again theres more to cars than HP, you know this. C6 Z06 has a higher top speed than the Z07. Its the drag

Not to mention Im not sure Id call cars costing $50-100K more "competition". That the Z07 can even hold its own in such company is saying something. Plus its only marginally slower than the old ZR1 and Viper through the quarter which make similar power and much less grip. So wot r u on about m8, u r0tor and SVT666 are punching walls over like 3-4 MPH in a 125-130MPH quarter mile.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Again theres more to cars than HP, you know this. C6 Z06 has a higher top speed than the Z07. Its the drag

Not to mention Im not sure Id call cars costing $50-100K more "competition". That the Z07 can even hold its own in such company is saying something. Plus its only marginally slower than the old ZR1 and Viper through the quarter which make similar power and much less grip. So wot r u on about m8, u r0tor and SVT666 are punching walls over like 3-4 MPH in a 125-130MPH quarter mile.

Once again, more to hp, track times?

Does this sound weird to you?

"Just because a car has more hp, torque, is lighter, with a better weight balance and has better grip and has better brakes. Doesn't mean it will be faster on a track than a car with less of all of those."

Ahh, the old price issue.

So did GM build a "world class" performance car or did they just build a cheap car. Or is it only world class if the price of the other car is equal to or less than the corvette.

[FoMoJo]

If GM wants to truly compete in the supercar segment, they need to drop the F/R setup with the hotrod engine and go to a M/R setup with a modern power-plant.  TTV6 sounds about right...at least, this is what the rumours are.  They even make one.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I think the motor is less of an issue than the chassis, but I agree both could be changed out for something else.

[68_427]

If GM wants to truly compete in the supercar segment, they need to drop the F/R setup with the hotrod engine and go to a M/R setup with a modern power-plant.  TTV6 sounds about right...at least, this is what the rumours are.  They even make one.

Mark Ruess said "ours will have a v8"

No ttv6 in the gm supercar

[SVT666]

There will be no GM supercar...ever.

[68_427]

There will be no GM supercar...ever.

The new impala and suburban are pretty super

[FoMoJo]

There will be no GM supercar...ever.

...and that is a shame.  You cannot remain competitive by sticking to the old formula.  If the Corvette is to remain relevant, they must go with what works best in order to achieve the results, otherwise, it will remain an old man's nostalgia symbol.  GM has a problem with that...including their fixation with push-rods.  Revs are where the power's at and as much as you can make a push-rod rev, reciprocating bits of metal will never achieve the free-wheeling deliverance of a circular motion.

[GoCougs]

Mark Ruess said "ours will have a v8"

No ttv6 in the gm supercar

EcoBoost has been a failure and I remain unconvinced putting a V6 into a $400k is gonna fix that.

[GoCougs]

Again theres more to cars than HP, you know this. C6 Z06 has a higher top speed than the Z07. Its the drag

Not to mention Im not sure Id call cars costing $50-100K more "competition". That the Z07 can even hold its own in such company is saying something. Plus its only marginally slower than the old ZR1 and Viper through the quarter which make similar power and much less grip. So wot r u on about m8, u r0tor and SVT666 are punching walls over like 3-4 MPH in a 125-130MPH quarter mile.

Haters gonna hate (but behind the scenes some are most certainly learning, even if it doesn't look like it).

[FoMoJo]

EcoBoost has been a failure and I remain unconvinced putting a V6 into a $400k is gonna fix that.

Speaking of haters.  It's comforting to know that you disagree.

[SJ_GTI]

Once again, more to hp, track times?

Does this sound weird to you?

"Just because a car has more hp, torque, is lighter, with a better weight balance and has better grip and has better brakes. Doesn't mean it will be faster on a track than a car with less of all of those."

Ahh, the old price issue.

So did GM build a "world class" performance car or did they just build a cheap car. Or is it only world class if the price of the other car is equal to or less than the corvette.

Again, if track times (including 1/4 mile times) were all that mattered, all performance cars would be AWD and have DSG's.

Of course when Ferrari/Lambo/Porsche put out such cars, you will lament the loss of RWD and manual transmission.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Again, if track times (including 1/4 mile times) were all that mattered, all performance cars would be AWD and have DSG's.

Of course when Ferrari/Lambo/Porsche put out such cars, you will lament the loss of RWD and manual transmission.

This has nothing to do with my personal preference, which may surprise many of you as I would probably prefer the Z06 out of this group, or a GT3 had that been in the group.

This is about building a car that performs to a fraction of it's specs, and the confusing nature by which many seem to not understand that.

[AutobahnSHO]

EcoBoost has been a failure and I remain unconvinced putting a V6 into a $400k is gonna fix that.

a failure at what??

Ford is selling a lot of them (win) and meeting dumb federal guidelines (win again). 

I completely agree that the extra maintenance costs will bite owners later on, but no need to get angry about it.

[FoMoJo]

Again, if track times (including 1/4 mile times) were all that mattered, all performance cars would be AWD and have DSG's.

Of course when Ferrari/Lambo/Porsche put out such cars, you will lament the loss of RWD and manual transmission.

There will always be Miata.

[hotrodalex]

If GM wants to truly compete in the supercar segment, they need to drop the F/R setup with the hotrod engine and go to a M/R setup with a modern power-plant.  TTV6 sounds about right...at least, this is what the rumours are.  They even make one.

Corvette isn't supposed to be a supercar. And if they drop it and go to mid engined, AWD, DSG, that will be a huge loss for the industry. Yet another boring supercar to be paraded down Hollywood Boulevard by guys with cash and no driving skill.

[hotrodalex]

There will always be Miata.

I only want one with a V8 in it.

[FoMoJo]

Corvette isn't supposed to be a supercar. And if they drop it and go to mid engined, AWD, DSG, that will be a huge loss for the industry. Yet another boring supercar to be paraded down Hollywood Boulevard by guys with cash and no driving skill.

No reason that it can't be.  If they want to market it as something that can be competitive with supercars, they need to make it one.

[FoMoJo]

I only want one with a V8 in it.

You want a hot rod...and so do I.