BMW pushes model range envelope with 7-seat minivan

[2o6]

The Mazda 5 failed because it was a shitty minivan....

[SVT666]

The Mazda 5 failed because it was a shitty minivan....

It failed because it is really small.

[NomisR]

I actually liked the Mazda 5, overall, it's a good concept, size is actually good for most everyone, the problem is, for the price point and the power output, it's pretty low rent and slow, and not good enough mileage.  Next gen could've improved on that considering what Mazda has done with the newest lineups.

[r0tor]

Yeah, somewhat debatable. The M3/M4 are still pretty much best in class. The M5 is top of class for euro mags, not so for reviewers in the US. The 3 series are still very good, maybe half a step behind the ATS in dynamics but better in other areas. The regular 5er is like the M5, loved in Europe not so much over here. The 7 has really fallen behind The S class and the A8.

The X1/X3/X5 are all pretty good as well.

The X1 and X3 are still terrible.  The X5 is an average SUV.  3 series is average.  5 series is probably now below average.  7 series nobody ever heard of.  M products are still good.

But back to my original point, BMW like Honda of several years ago has focused too heavily on trying to appease what they think mainstream customers should want, make tons of redundant products, and in the process lost complete focus on what made them great - its only a matter of time now before the brand continues to sink.

[CALL_911]

So what have Honda sales like been over the past few years?

[hotrodalex]

BMW had the best sales of any luxury brand last year and had a 9.5% increase over the previous year. (1.81 million to 1.66 million)

Honda sold 1.37 million, a 1% increase over 2013.

[MexicoCityM3]

The X1 and X3 are still terrible.  The X5 is an average SUV.  3 series is average.  5 series is probably now below average.  7 series nobody ever heard of.  M products are still good.

But back to my original point, BMW like Honda of several years ago has focused too heavily on trying to appease what they think mainstream customers should want, make tons of redundant products, and in the process lost complete focus on what made them great - its only a matter of time now before the brand continues to sink.

Hmm. Have you driven an X1? I have and it totally licks everything else in the segment.

The 3er is certainly above average never lower than 2nd in any comparo and the indisputable segment sales king. 5er depends on who you ask, but let´s say average. 7er I agree. New X5 I haven't driven yet. The previous X5M/X6M were a delight to drive.

BTW, USA Sales just out. Up almost 20% for February. I don't think they worry too much in Munich.

It's food for thought that we actually have at least a couple of members here saying they might consider this BMW minivan thingy - and they were not considering BMW before it! Not that I like this minivan or anything, but as long as they continue making good cars, I´m ok.

[CALL_911]

Although interestingly, the X1 has a lot in common with the E90

[r0tor]

So what have Honda sales like been over the past few years?

Frankly, like most car enthusiasts, I have no clue because I stopped caring about Honda about 10 years ago.  Everyone knows you can sell boring shit and people will buy it.  Toyota figured out though that if you sell boring shit for too long, you suffer... and now we have slightly pathetic new and edgy styled Camry's and Corollas.

[CALL_911]

They're doing better than ever. Remember, Honda is in the business of automaking.

[AutobahnSHO]

The Mazda 5 failed because it was a shitty minivan....

with only like 1-3mpg better than a full-size minivan. Not worth it unless you really do want small for no reason.

[NomisR]

It's food for thought that we actually have at least a couple of members here saying they might consider this BMW minivan thingy - and they were not considering BMW before it! Not that I like this minivan or anything, but as long as they continue making good cars, I´m ok.

Well, at least with me, i've considered the 3 series and the i3, 3 series didn't happen because they didn't have a diesel wagon, and i3 didn't happen because it wasn't as good as originally billed, and Volt was more useful to me. 

Now for the BMW minivan, at least on paper, it seems to fit what I want.  6/7 passenger vehicle that's not the behemoth that the current minivans are, and seems to be priced properly.  But then again, chances of it ever being released in the US is slim to done.

[NomisR]

with only like 1-3mpg better than a full-size minivan. Not worth it unless you really do want small for no reason.

Yeah, that's the problem, considering the power and size, the mileage wasn't impressive, not enough to sacrifice for space.

[veeman]

In the U.S. BMW, MB, and Audi are never bought because of their utility.  They're prestige brands.  People who buy minivans are going to cross-shop this BMW with other minivans and it doesn't make any sense over here.

Why would an American buy this BMW over a full size Sienna or Odyssey?  Less room, doesn't look any better, more expensive upkeep.  It'll handle better and has a smaller footprint.  That doesn't make any difference in 99% of the U.S.   

[MX793]

Yeah, that's the problem, considering the power and size, the mileage wasn't impressive, not enough to sacrifice for space.

The bigger issue was that you had to choose between carrying 5-6 people and no additional cargo, or fold the rear row and have decent cargo room but only 4 seats.  With all seats in place, the cargo area was only big enough for a single piece of carry-on sized luggage.

[NomisR]

The bigger issue was that you had to choose between carrying 5-6 people and no additional cargo, or fold the rear row and have decent cargo room but only 4 seats.  With all seats in place, the cargo area was only big enough for a single piece of carry-on sized luggage.

Never really thought to look at the trunk of the 5 but I guess that makes sense.  I wonder what the BMW would be like in the same scenario.

[r0tor]

They're doing better than ever. Remember, Honda is in the business of automaking.

So is Toyota.  Good for them selling cars to appliance shoppers.  Honda wanted in on the appliance market and became irrelevant to people who actually like cars.  BMW is doing the same.  The corporate entity sold out to the bean counters and the heart of the company died.

Will they sell appliances - yes.  Do I give a damn about the appliances - not in the slightest. 

[NomisR]

So is Toyota.  Good for them selling cars to appliance shoppers.  Honda wanted in on the appliance market and became irrelevant to people who actually like cars.  BMW is doing the same.  The corporate entity sold out to the bean counters and the heart of the company died.

Will they sell appliances - yes.  Do I give a damn about the appliances - not in the slightest. 

Isn't that the same stance most mainstream car companies are taking?  I mean, Porsche's heading in the same direction.  The only company I would probably say that's not is probably Mazda and Subaru and even they're not all that niche..

[r0tor]

Isn't that the same stance most mainstream car companies are taking?  I mean, Porsche's heading in the same direction.  The only company I would probably say that's not is probably Mazda and Subaru and even they're not all that niche..

Toyota is trying to revert back to sporting ambitions.
Mercedes is going back towards luxury.
Ford is moving towards performance.
VAG is pretty much staying the same old VAG.
Mazda is moving towards Koreans.
BMW is chasing Honda even as Honda continually chases Toyota who has realized they went too far.
The Brits are as silly as ever.

[CALL_911]

Do I give a damn about the appliances - not in the slightest.

Looking at their bottom lines, do [should] they give a damn about you?

[r0tor]

Looking at their bottom lines, do [should] they give a damn about you?

So a corolla is much better then a GTi - right?

[CALL_911]

So a corolla is much better then a GTi - right?

You argue about smarts in the other thread. Smarts have a lot to do with sound logic, something which you continue to demonstrate a lack of understanding

[r0tor]

You argue about smarts in the other thread. Smarts have a lot to do with sound logic, something which you continue to demonstrate a lack of understanding

I think VW should tune the GTI to be more Collora style bland so they sell more.

[CALL_911]

I think VW should tune the GTI to be more Collora style bland so they sell more.

Then you'd be an idiot. The Jetta is their volume seller- they did that and have been selling more.

[r0tor]

Then you'd be an idiot. The Jetta is their volume seller- they did that and have been selling more.

More sales the better right?  Corolla outsells the golf/gti.  Convert golf to collora blandness and increase my share price (yea, I own VAG stock...).  Pretty simple.

[CALL_911]

 

[cawimmer430]

It's interesting that some of you would consider these cars from BMW which are pretty much the antithesis to what BMWs are.

Interesting.

Never thought I'd see such an admission on Carspin.

[Madman]

It's interesting that some of you would consider these cars from BMW which are pretty much the antithesis to what BMWs are.

Interesting.

Never thought I'd see such an admission on Carspin.

I'm looking past the badge and judging it for what it is; a practical family car.  After all, if Mercedes can make cargo vans and buses, why can't BMW make a kid carrier?  The real questions are is it any nicer the existing offerings from Renault, Opel, etc and is it worth the premium BMW are sure to charge.  If the answer to both those questions turn out to be yes, then BMW will have a hit on it's hands.  Much to the chagrin of the "purists", I might add.

If the answer to those questions are no, then this car will go down as one of automotive history's biggest flops.  Somehow, I think the allure of the BMW badge will be enough to overcome any potential shortcomings.  If Mercedes can survive the disaster that was the original A Class, BMW can surely survive anything!

[SJ_GTI]

Didn't they do this already?

[cawimmer430]

I'm looking past the badge and judging it for what it is; a practical family car.  After all, if Mercedes can make cargo vans and buses, why can't BMW make a kid carrier?  The real questions are is it any nicer the existing offerings from Renault, Opel, etc and is it worth the premium BMW are sure to charge.  If the answer to both those questions turn out to be yes, then BMW will have a hit on it's hands.  Much to the chagrin of the "purists", I might add.

If the answer to those questions are no, then this car will go down as one of automotive history's biggest flops.  Somehow, I think the allure of the BMW badge will be enough to overcome any potential shortcomings.  If Mercedes can survive the disaster that was the original A Class, BMW can surely survive anything!

I've only checked out the 2-Series Active Tourer at BMW Welt. Great interior and great materials. Premium? Yep. I'm sure the build quality is also up to scratch. And the first test of the car by Auto Motor und Sport revealed some pretty sweet driving dynamics for a FWD car. No torque steer, minimal understeer, responsive steering etc.

A Renault Scenic or Volkswagen Touran might be better value, but their driving dynamics and [lack of] sporty feel don't come close to that of the BMW, I'd assume.