Which super sedan?

[TBR]

There are numerous new entries to this class so I thought this might make an interesting poll.

Edit- ignore price.

[ifcar]

My dollar: CTS-V or 300C SRT-8.
Price not a factor: M5
Bending/breaking the rules: E55 wagon

[TBR]

This is a real hard one for me. I can get eliminate 5 of them easily enough but then I am left with the STS-V, Quattroporte, and RS4. All three are quite different, but it is still a hard choice. The RS4 is more capable than the other two, but it doesn't look as good and isn't as comfortable. The STS-V is the most comfortable, but it's responses wouldn't be as sharp as the Quattroporte's and it is AT only. The Quattroporte is gorgeous and has that wonderful V8, but it also has a rough ride and the slowest acceleration times. So, in conclusion, I didn't vote <_<

[Tom]

XJR

Great ride, roomy, fast, attractive classic styling.

[Raza]

The RS4 is hardly a super sedan, but it is the only one here with a conventional manual.  So, I'll take it.

[Raza]

Perhaps I need to change my vote...

CLS55 AMG Top Gear

[850CSi]

Without a doubt the M5.

And Raza, the M5 comes with a conventional manual. (Even though I'd prefer SMG)

[TBR]

Without a doubt the M5.

And Raza, the M5 comes with a conventional manual. (Even though I'd prefer SMG)

Not yet and I fail to see how the RS4 isn't a super sedan. It may not have as much power as some but it is most likely the best handling one listed.

[Catman]

I know, I'm even shocked that I picked the STS-V! :o   But, I figured with the savings over the others I could buy a cheap truck for the winter too.   It is a nice ride though.

[thewizard16]

M5 or RS4 for me.

[Catman]

Perhaps I need to change my vote...

CLS55 AMG Top Gear

Nice.

[Run Away]

RS4 or S-Type R.
The M5 is too obvious of a choice for me.

This RS4 is one of few Audis that I've really liked, the AWD + big V8 in a smallish sedan is cool.

The Jag, well, it's a Jag. That comes from the factory all blacked out, packing a supercharged V8.

Probably the RS4 because it's stick though.

[Catman]

Nicest Cadillac ever!

[Raza]

Without a doubt the M5.

And Raza, the M5 comes with a conventional manual. (Even though I'd prefer SMG)

Not yet and I fail to see how the RS4 isn't a super sedan. It may not have as much power as some but it is most likely the best handling one listed.

I don't think so.  I wouldn't bet on it against an M5 in a race either.  

The RS4 is barely faster and barely more powerful than the S4.  It's a right good sports sedan, but super doesn't apply.

[TBR]

Without a doubt the M5.

And Raza, the M5 comes with a conventional manual. (Even though I'd prefer SMG)

Not yet and I fail to see how the RS4 isn't a super sedan. It may not have as much power as some but it is most likely the best handling one listed.

I don't think so.  I wouldn't bet on it against an M5 in a race either.  

The RS4 is barely faster and barely more powerful than the S4.  It's a right good sports sedan, but super doesn't apply.

.7 seconds and 74 hp is more than barely. The RS4 is faster than the XJR, S-type R, CTS-V, and Quattroporte and is only slightly slower than the STS-V. Only the E55/CLS55 and M5 are noticeabley faster.

If it isn't a super sedan then only two of the choices are.  

[ro51092]

Definitely the M5

-Dead sexy
-Decent Interior
-High-tech
-Perhaps the best to drive in the bunch
-Rocket Engine
-4-Door Ferrari
-A conventional manual

[JYODER240]

I'll take the maser, its fast enough, handles well, beautiful interior, and absolutly gorgeous.  

[so cal cookie]

I'm not sure.  
I like the STS-V, both Jags, and the M5.  

[Secret Chimp]

Definitely the RS4; that new Top Gear video of it (woodog for that 4.2) and the fact that it's still something of a sleeper sold me on it.

The CTS-V doesn't appeal to me at all aside from the raw power (which it seems to have trouble putting down), the STS-V is too much car, the M5 has strayed from the old formula a bit too much (plus that 911 vs Aston Martin vs M5 thing on the Isle of Man thing - where was the power going?), and the XJR, S-type R, and Quattroporte are out of character for me.

I would consider an E55 wagon though - but if they do an RS4 Avant, o jeez.

[Raza]

Without a doubt the M5.

And Raza, the M5 comes with a conventional manual. (Even though I'd prefer SMG)

Not yet and I fail to see how the RS4 isn't a super sedan. It may not have as much power as some but it is most likely the best handling one listed.

I don't think so.  I wouldn't bet on it against an M5 in a race either.  

The RS4 is barely faster and barely more powerful than the S4.  It's a right good sports sedan, but super doesn't apply.

.7 seconds and 74 hp is more than barely. The RS4 is faster than the XJR, S-type R, CTS-V, and Quattroporte and is only slightly slower than the STS-V. Only the E55/CLS55 and M5 are noticeabley faster.

If it isn't a super sedan then only two of the choices are.

Yeah, I agree.  The XJR and Quattroporte are more like midlevel performance saloons.  More performance than your average V8 luxury four door, but they'll get left behind by AMGs and the like.

The STR has been a bit of an embarassment, as I've read it's far too close to an ST8 to be considered a viable option over it.  Though it's probably the Jag I'd want to own, and it's a real sports sedan, it just doesn't fall into the "super" category"

The CTS-V isn't a super sedan either.  It seems to match the RS4's 0-60 time of 4.8 seconds (depending on manufacturer claims and who you talk to), but so many cars hit 60 in under 5 seconds now, it's not that special--the Evo and STi do it as well, why aren't they included?  I'll tell you why:  They don't have the pedigree.  Neither does the CTS-V.  Why?  It's not because it's a Cadillac, that's definitely not the issue here--I'd include the STS-V as a super sedan, probably, but the issue is that it's a CTS.  An M3 isn't a super sedan (forgetting for the moment that it's only offered, idiotically, as a 2+2 coupe) because it plays to a different crowd.  It is indeed a magnificent sports sedan in a coupe's body, however--that is something no one can take away from it.  

We're in an era of tacking the word "super" on to everything.  Super this, super that.  Super used to mean something, now it doesn't; and to me, it still should.  People call midlevel or even entry level GT cars from fabled names supercars because they have fabled names.  The 430, Gallardo, and even the 575 and maybe the Murcielago aren't supercars--they're GTs.  The Enzo, Zonda, Carrera GT, SLR--those are supercars.  

There has to be a filter here, and it can't just be power, or just pedigree (otherwise everything with a fabled name would count)--there's an intangible quality that a "super"-anything needs.  Perhaps a "supercar" is just something you'd find on the wall of a 10 year old's bedroom.  Perhaps it's more.  But the problem is that you can't call everything super.  

The M5, STS-V, E55/CLS55 are all midsize sedans--they had lives breathed into them from being midlevel, and not entry--that offer scary power, high levels of luxury, technology, and a gasping factor that the others don't seem to have.  Call them super sedans, and you'll have no qualms with me.

But the RS4?  It's a superb sports sedan--probably the best sports sedan here.  But is it a super car?  Not to me.

[Fire It Up]

I agree with Raza's little essay. But the SLR could also be called a GT.

[MX793]

RS4, but the CTS-V and M5 are both strong contenders.

[TBR]

I agree with Raza's little essay. But the SLR could also be called a GT.

That's all it could be called, there is nothing super about a 4000 lb, $300,000 two seater imho.

Raza, I still disagree. In fact, I would even call the RS4 the most super super sedan listed simply because it makes the fewest compromises. In my book, a super sedan is a highly modified version of a sports sedan that easily outaccelerates and outhandles the original, the RS4 definitely meets those criteria. The problem here is that you have this preconcieved notion where a super sedan has to be a midsizer (pretty much the case until very recently), but with cars like the CTS-V, S65, and RS4 that is simply no longer true.

But, one thing I will agree with, the S-type R isn't really a super sedan. But, it isn't priced like one either and in my book is worth the money over the V8 model (in fact, I would even say that you would have to be an idiot, or a non-enthuisist, to get a S-type V8 when the R model is available for only slightly more(relatively).

I also fail to see how the STS-V has enough prestige to be a super sedan if the CTS-V doesn't.

[Speed_Racer]

I went with the Four-Door (Quattroporte), but the XJR and the M5 come in 2nd and 3rd, respectively.

The Quattroporte has a gorgeous interior and exterior, some nice looking leather, and then there's that engine. [drool]

[MX793]

I agree with Raza's little essay. But the SLR could also be called a GT.

That's all it could be called, there is nothing super about a 4000 lb, $300,000 two seater imho.

What are you talking about?  It's all of those excesses that make for a super car.  The SLR is super expensive, super heavy, super high tech, and super powerful.  Sounds like a supercar to me.

[TBR]

I agree with Raza's little essay. But the SLR could also be called a GT.

That's all it could be called, there is nothing super about a 4000 lb, $300,000 two seater imho.

What are you talking about?  It's all of those excesses that make for a super car.  The SLR is super expensive, super heavy, super high tech, and super powerful.  Sounds like a supercar to me.

Super heavy isn't a good thing nor is super high tech, at least in the SLR's application of it.  

[Raza]

I agree with Raza's little essay. But the SLR could also be called a GT.

That's all it could be called, there is nothing super about a 4000 lb, $300,000 two seater imho.

Raza, I still disagree. In fact, I would even call the RS4 the most super super sedan listed simply because it makes the fewest compromises. In my book, a super sedan is a highly modified version of a sports sedan that easily outaccelerates and outhandles the original, the RS4 definitely meets those criteria. The problem here is that you have this preconcieved notion where a super sedan has to be a midsizer (pretty much the case until very recently), but with cars like the CTS-V, S65, and RS4 that is simply no longer true.

But, one thing I will agree with, the S-type R isn't really a super sedan. But, it isn't priced like one either and in my book is worth the money over the V8 model (in fact, I would even say that you would have to be an idiot, or a non-enthuisist, to get a S-type V8 when the R model is available for only slightly more(relatively).

I also fail to see how the STS-V has enough prestige to be a super sedan if the CTS-V doesn't.

I didn't say it had to be a midsizer--the S55/600/65 are up there in super saloons, so is the 760i (though less so)--but it has to be at least that.  

The CTS and STS don't have as much pedigree as the Germans, no--but that's because of the mediocrity that Cadillac was in until recently.  The STS-V qualifies because of its power, size, and price.  

[Raza]

I agree with Raza's little essay. But the SLR could also be called a GT.

That's all it could be called, there is nothing super about a 4000 lb, $300,000 two seater imho.

What are you talking about?  It's all of those excesses that make for a super car.  The SLR is super expensive, super heavy, super high tech, and super powerful.  Sounds like a supercar to me.

Super heavy isn't a good thing nor is super high tech, at least in the SLR's application of it.

It was also the fastest car around Top Gear's track.  

[TBR]

I agree with Raza's little essay. But the SLR could also be called a GT.

That's all it could be called, there is nothing super about a 4000 lb, $300,000 two seater imho.

Raza, I still disagree. In fact, I would even call the RS4 the most super super sedan listed simply because it makes the fewest compromises. In my book, a super sedan is a highly modified version of a sports sedan that easily outaccelerates and outhandles the original, the RS4 definitely meets those criteria. The problem here is that you have this preconcieved notion where a super sedan has to be a midsizer (pretty much the case until very recently), but with cars like the CTS-V, S65, and RS4 that is simply no longer true.

But, one thing I will agree with, the S-type R isn't really a super sedan. But, it isn't priced like one either and in my book is worth the money over the V8 model (in fact, I would even say that you would have to be an idiot, or a non-enthuisist, to get a S-type V8 when the R model is available for only slightly more(relatively).

I also fail to see how the STS-V has enough prestige to be a super sedan if the CTS-V doesn't.

I didn't say it had to be a midsizer--the S55/600/65 are up there in super saloons, so is the 760i (though less so)--but it has to be at least that.  

The CTS and STS don't have as much pedigree as the Germans, no--but that's because of the mediocrity that Cadillac was in until recently.  The STS-V qualifies because of its power, size, and price.

I agree with price, but I don't agree with size or power. The CTS-V has more interior room than the old M5 (and, actually, I believe it is very similar in size to the STS-V) and it has more power than the previous generations of all other super sedans.  

[TBR]

I agree with Raza's little essay. But the SLR could also be called a GT.

That's all it could be called, there is nothing super about a 4000 lb, $300,000 two seater imho.

What are you talking about?  It's all of those excesses that make for a super car.  The SLR is super expensive, super heavy, super high tech, and super powerful.  Sounds like a supercar to me.

Super heavy isn't a good thing nor is super high tech, at least in the SLR's application of it.

It was also the fastest car around Top Gear's track.

That was before they tested an Enzo or CGT, both were faster.

Edit- The Top 10:
1. Pagani Zonda F
1.18.4

2. Maserati MC12   
1.18.9

3. Ferrari Enzo
1.19.0

4. Ariel Atom
1.19.5

5. Porsche Carerra GT   
1.19.8

6. Ascari KZ1
1.20.7

7. Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren
1.20.9

8. Ford GT
1.21.9

9. Porsche GT3 RS
1.22.3

10. Ferrari 360 CS
1.22.3