Drove an E92 M3. Was disappoint

[565]

I'm going to get flamed so bad from the M lovers of Carspin, but here goes.

So I've secretly been eyeing the M cars for a while watching them drop in price.  Everyone convinced me the E60 M5 was a bad idea, but just today a local E92 M3 turned up.  It was a great color (Interlagos blue) 6 speed, adjustable dampers, unfortunately its got the moonroof instead of the carbon fiber roof.  Still, I'll be honest, it looked pretty damn amazing.  And it was just around 30K in price, which is reasonable (not as cheap as the M5s, but I'm told the E92s M3s are rather reliable. This I decided to check it out today.  It also happens to be the first E90/92 I've driven, having driven the E46 prior (including in M3 trim).  I was interested because the E92 has gotten pretty much universal rave reviews (beating out a GT-R and 911 Turbo in that C&D review), with a lot of people saying the F30 has lost some of that purity. 

First impressions, the driving position seemed rather off.  The cowl was pretty high, the clutch too far and the brakes throttle too close.  With the steering wheel down to an acceptable position, the top of the wheel covered the top of the gauges.  The wheel doesn't drop down enough (I like the wheel basically in my lap). The instrument panel was very vertical and not very sports car like.  The power dome just interfered with visibility and made it feel like I was riding that wooden log water roller-coaster ride..   I know this is stating the obvious, but the M3 is not a sports car. It's a sports sedan derived performance car and from behind the wheel, its driving position shows.  Overall the seating position is obviously much less sports car like than C5, but interestingly less sports car like than a G37 sedan (which has a surprisingly good driving position with a low cowl, and a wheel that goes low without blocking everything), and about the same amount of sedanness as a Accord (8th gen).

Setting off in the car, a few things become evident.  The clutch is marshmallow light, and the shifter, though short, is rubbery and vague.  The steering is very light, surprisingly too light.  I expected lots of feedback, but I'd say it was more feedback than the Z06, about on par with a G37 (less numbness but also less weight), and I know this is blasphemy, less feedback about what the front tires were doing than a 8th gen Accord. Overall the controls were too muted.

The salesman was quite liberal during the test drive, allowing me to pretty much flog it around some backroads and the highway.  This pretty much brings me to the most disappointing part of the E92 M3, which was the thing I least expected to be a point of disappointment,  the engine.  It's smooth, but doesn't make much in the way of exhaust noise, and I hate to say it, it felt rather gutless.  It was a bit like driving an S2000 without the top down fun and the go kart feel.  There just wasn't enough torque down low to make it thrilling with 3600 pounds on board.  I did ring it out the redline, where it stays very smooth, but rather quiet from the inside, and never feels as fast as it probably is.  I didn't push the car to the limits of adhesion because I didn't want to wrap a car that wasn't mine around a tree, but I'm sure it's brilliant there.

At the end of the day, I felt like I needed to go absolutely bonkers in the M3 to make it exciting.  Yes you could argue it's a better daily driver than my old 13 year old Z06, but beyond a bunch of toys I can barely understand and that back seat, I don't think it's significantly better daily driver at all.  The z06 just more special every day of the week.  I'm glad I test drove the M3 though, because I know I need something more brutal and visceral.  I still need to find a GT-R to drive...

[SVT666]

The GT-R feels just like my G37 sedan but with 550 hp.  It doesn't feel special at all. 

By the way, the reason you can drop the G37 steering wheel and not block the gauges is because the gauges move with the wheel.

[MX793]

Did you have it in any of the sport modes or just regular mode?  IIRC, selecting one of those (sport/sport+/track, or whatever BMW calls them) firms up the steering.  Not sure on E92 M3s, but those settings also adjust throttle response and can even increase the exhaust noise (open up some valves in the mufflers for a louder exhaust).

[565]

Did you have it in any of the sport modes or just regular mode?  IIRC, selecting one of those (sport/sport+/track, or whatever BMW calls them) firms up the steering.  Not sure on E92 M3s, but those settings also adjust throttle response and can even increase the exhaust noise (open up some valves in the mufflers for a louder exhaust).

Uhh I pressed the power button ( not sure what it did, but I figured it should be pressed), and also pressed the ESC button till 2 lights were lit.  Honestly I played with the  ESC adjustable shocks and didn't feel much of a difference.

[2o6]

I've driven like five (in the manner you've described, not on a track)


I can't remotely understand where you get the "steering too light", especially in context with the G37.



But yeah, the pedals are slightly cramped, but they feel a little cramped and close in the E90 non M cars.

[2o6]

The M3 has notably heavier and more feel than the regular 3 series, which I've criticized for being too heavy and slow for my tastes....

[FlatBlackCaddy]

BMW driving controls and positions take a little wheel time to feel "right", and they normally will feel better over time. Not really an ideal scenario but after a month of owning the car you would probably be less sensitive to the clutch weight and pedal spacing. I know the stiffer floor mounted pedal of the E39 felt weird at first but very natural after a few weeks.

With that said, I've seen some nice M3's reaching the price range you speak of and they are tempting. However the car is a compromise, like anything, and to me there is just either more performance or more luxury to be had for that kind of money. The M3 is no lightweight and I prefer my sports cars lighter and I prefer my luxury cars larger.

If you want luxury, get a E55/E63 or get a V12 S Classe for the same money.

If you want performance, get a C6 base or stretch some cash and get a C6 Z06. If you want a german I've seen nice Cayman S's around 30K and 987 boxsters can be had for around the same price.

Or just buy a GT-R, I've seen a few touch the upper 50's. But to be honest I'd rather a C6 Z06 for right under 40(that will get you a 09+ with around 30K on it). I liked the GTR I drove, and with more seat time would have probably adjusted to it and been more comfortable. I think I would have enjoyed modifying a GTR more than something like an M car, but modifying a Z06 would have been the easiest of course.

Have you looked at an evo? You can buy a nice IX for that kind of money(30K ish), if you want raw and visceral that is exactly what you'll get and I think they are one of the best cars out there for the money. I kind of regret passing on buying another evo, but I think I'll really enjoy the alternative.

[12,000 RPM]

The 135i may be a better choice for you. Torquier and more visceral at the expense of refinement and M3 power is a $600 chip away

I think I am fully over the high revving engine thing. Even on bikes, I prefer a strong midrange to top end screaming. I feel like a douchebag having to rev an engine out to make haste. My body is ready for boost. In the real world a well boosted car (biggish motor) feels good. My boss has an E90 335i and it's a damn nice car but I can see why one would have reservations about having one as a sporty car. Too much of a compromise.

If you can put up with the interior EVOs sound good. The new STi looks nice too. Might be blasphemy but the Golf R has been getting really good reviews as well. B8 S4s are getting affordable as well.... not too many options if u dont like AWD though.

[MrH]

Yeah, I drove an E90 M3 and honestly wasn't blown away either.  It was fast, but no mind melting fast.  It was a big bunch of compromise to me too.

I prefer my sports cars lighter and I prefer my luxury cars larger.

Exactly.

[SJ_GTI]

The 135i may be a better choice for you. Torquier and more visceral at the expense of refinement and M3 power is a $600 chip away

Have to say, looking at the current crop of cars out there, 2-series is probably the only German car on my realistic list of next purchase. A4 and 3-series are getting too big (my car is too big IMHO, will be trying to go smaller next time around). A3 was not a nice enough car from the loaners I have had.

But to be fair to BMW, these are luxury cars first and foremost. BMW is on the more "fun to drive" side of the scale than MB for instance, but they are still basically the same types of cars.

[12,000 RPM]

Have to say, looking at the current crop of cars out there, 2-series is probably the only German car on my realistic list of next purchase. A4 and 3-series are getting too big (my car is too big IMHO, will be trying to go smaller next time around). A3 was not a nice enough car from the loaners I have had.

But to be fair to BMW, these are luxury cars first and foremost. BMW is on the more "fun to drive" side of the scale than MB for instance, but they are still basically the same types of cars.

Yea the 2 is good. I'm rolling with the Civic until our kids (none yet) are in booster seats. Once they get there M235is will probably be in my price range.

And yea that they are luxury cars before everything else is kind of the problem. Its so much easier to get it right when you start with a dedicated performance platform.

[hotrodalex]

Definitely about BMW controls taking a couple of weeks to get used. But once you do, they're wonderful.

[MexicoCityM3]

As I've mentioned many times, the M3 is an excellent all-around car if you'll have just one car. It has a very good blend of practicality, fun and overall capability that has made it the benchmark of that particular category of cars for most of its life.

The E92 definitely only feels really, really exciting on-track or balls out bonkers in the street. The settings for all the adjustable things do make a noticeable difference.

I remember when I first drove an E92 way back that I thought it was less raw than the E46, because it is at normal speeds.

I agree with comments above that getting two more specialised cars can be the superior choice. In a way (within the BMW world) that's what I chose more recently. The M5 is my luxury car and the others are fun cars. The fun cars are better than the E90 M3 at being fun and the M5 is better at luxury than the M3. I can see myself going even more extreme in the future, like with a next gen 5er (not necessarily an M) and a GT4 or M2.

[MexicoCityM3]

Definitely about BMW controls taking a couple of weeks to get used. But once you do, they're wonderful.

Yes. The gearbox throws particularly feel long at first. At speed, on track they are just perfect for example.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

As I've mentioned many times, the M3 is an excellent all-around car if you'll have just one car. It has a very good blend of practicality, fun and overall capability that has made it the benchmark of that particular category of cars for most of its life.

The E92 definitely only feels really, really exciting on-track or balls out bonkers in the street. The settings for all the adjustable things do make a noticeable difference.

I remember when I first drove an E92 way back that I thought it was less raw than the E46, because it is at normal speeds.

I agree with comments above that getting two more specialised cars can be the superior choice. In a way (within the BMW world) that's what I chose more recently. The M5 is my luxury car and the others are fun cars. The fun cars are better than the E90 M3 at being fun and the M5 is better at luxury than the M3. I can see myself going even more extreme in the future, like with a next gen 5er (not necessarily an M) and a GT4 or M2.

GT4 as in a Porsche?

Porsche as in a division of VWAG?

VWAG as in Volkswagen?

Ohh lord we lost another one. Stay strong future BMW ----> VW convert. When do you break the news to the local BMW chapter.

[SJ_GTI]

GT4 as in a Porsche?

Porsche as in a division of VWAG?

VWAG as in Volkswagen?

Ohh lord we lost another one. Stay strong future BMW ----> VW convert. When do you break the news to the local BMW chapter.

[GoCougs]

FWIW I know a few BMWists and none of them really care a whole lot for the E9x M3. I'm not one of those, ergo, the E9x M3 is probably the only BMW I'm really interested .

[12,000 RPM]

Another way to look at the E9x M3, not to take anything from it but the E39 M5 has the same performance, only weighs a little more, costs half as much and IMO looks better. Has more low end/midrange shove too. I just dont know about these near 2 ton performance cars though.

[SJ_GTI]

Another way to look at the E9x M3, not to take anything from it but the E39 M5 has the same performance, only weighs a little more, costs half as much and IMO looks better. Has more low end/midrange shove too. I just dont know about these near 2 ton performance cars though.

FWIW, that is exactly how I look at my car...the modern equivalent of an E39 5-series or C5 A6. Nice car, just a bit big for my taste.

[MexicoCityM3]

GT4 as in a Porsche?

Porsche as in a division of VWAG?

VWAG as in Volkswagen?

Ohh lord we lost another one. Stay strong future BMW ----> VW convert. When do you break the news to the local BMW chapter.

Good move there.

[MexicoCityM3]

Another way to look at the E9x M3, not to take anything from it but the E39 M5 has the same performance, only weighs a little more, costs half as much and IMO looks better. Has more low end/midrange shove too. I just dont know about these near 2 ton performance cars though.

The E90 is significantly faster and better handling than the E39.

An interesting note is that in my opinion, the new F80 is rawer and more fun than the E90. At least, it was a hoot to drive at the track. And it has the midrange shove that many crave for in spades.

[Char]

Have you driven the F82?
One thing I'm excited about is that it's potentially more reliable than the E90 M. The S65 has too many issues for me to even consider (now that they are in my price range.) I can afford one - but like the NSX and it's $3000 clutch job, I can't afford one.   

[FlatBlackCaddy]

NSX clutch kits don't seem any more expensive than any other kit. Why would it cost 3000 dollars?

[Char]

NSX clutch kits don't seem any more expensive than any other kit. Why would it cost 3000 dollars?

Not really..my clutch kit for my old BMW (not including flywheel) was around $300.
Oh and then there is labor.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/126271-What-should-I-factor-for-clutch-replacement-cost

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Ohh labor

[MexicoCityM3]

Have you driven the F82?
One thing I'm excited about is that it's potentially more reliable than the E90 M. The S65 has too many issues for me to even consider (now that they are in my price range.) I can afford one - but like the NSX and it's $3000 clutch job, I can't afford one.   

Yes, I drove both the F80 and F82 at the Puebla track in a BMW event. I was able to pretty much drive them to the limit of my ability.

I loved them in that context. Superior to any other BMW I have driven if fun and speed is the criteria. More of a handful certainly. Power oversteer is the dominant trait. Some people may not like that.

I haven't driven them on public roads so in that context I don't know. Maybe the limits are too high for fun but I doubt it.

About the reliability vs the E90 it is of course too early to tell. The turbos add complexity but on the other hand the E90's engine was very complex for an NA engine.

FWIW, my E90 was the most reliable BMW I have owned. Zero problems from new to 50K miles when I sold it. And I easily put 1-2K miles of track use on it. I know from my friend who has it now that the alternator recently went though.