Big Brother is officially in Oregon

[SVT666]

Oregon is moving forward with its pilot program, known as OreGo, that will tax car owners based on mileage driven rather than gasoline consumption.
The initiative is said to be the first example in the country, likely to be replicated by other states as legislators attempt to protect against budget shortfalls from declining gasoline-tax revenue.

Proponents argue that a per-mile tax is a fairer way to collect revenue from drivers, requiring payments proportional to actual usage of the roads and infrastructure that is maintained via the collected revenue.

Drivers of electric vehicles currently pay no gas tax, and some argue that they should not have to. One Oregon EV owner told the Associated Press that a usage-based tax is "discriminatory," while others argue that it would discourage wider adoption of green vehicles.

Scheduled to start July 1, the pilot program will involve up to 5,000 volunteers. Each will be provided with a GPS device to log mileage, taxed at a rate of 1.5 cents per mile. Drivers will still pay the gas tax at the pump, however they will receive a credit for the difference at the end of the month.

[12,000 RPM]

GPS? Why not just use odometer readings at inspections?

Will they use this to give automatic speeding tickets? This doesnt add up.

[Cookie Monster]

Hmm... at an average rate of 12000 miles per year, that'd come out to $180/year. Honestly not a big deal for most people, especially if gasoline taxes are reduced.

It just sucks that now your mileage will be monitored, including where you drive and probably your speeds as well.

[Soup DeVille]

How are they going to make sure the GPS stays on the primary vehicle, and not my kid's tricycle?

[FlatBlackCaddy]

So extending that logic to schools.

People with no kids shouldn't pay taxes related to education.

People with a child in school, but that is doing poorly, should only pay a little because obviously the child isn't getting as much "use" out of school.

While people who have a child that is getting A's should pay the bulk of the schools taxes because they are utilizing the education system the most.

Sounds pretty dumb when you think of it that way, and of course that higher miles traveled leads to more fuel(which has tax on it). Sounds like the fuel angle already covers taxes based on a variable use.

Then again, the above is all logic driven. The reality is they just want more tax, more tax, more tax and of course more tax.

[MX793]

GPS? Why not just use odometer readings at inspections?

Will they use this to give automatic speeding tickets? This doesnt add up.

Oregon has no annual inspections.  Only emissions checks for vehicles owned in the Portland or Medford metro areas required every other year.

[Cookie Monster]

So extending that logic to schools.

People with no kids shouldn't pay taxes related to education.

People with a child in school, but that is doing poorly, should only pay a little because obviously the child isn't getting as much "use" out of school.

While people who have a child that is getting A's should pay the bulk of the schools taxes because they are utilizing the education system the most.

Sounds pretty dumb when you think of it that way, and of course that higher miles traveled leads to more fuel(which has tax on it). Sounds like the fuel angle already covers taxes based on a variable use.

Then again, the above is all logic driven. The reality is they just want more tax, more tax, more tax and of course more tax.

But the fuel taxes help (in theory) to cover road maintenance. By getting a hybrid or EV, you're using the same roads while not paying any taxes. Increasing the gas taxes to cover the expense would only hurt people who can't afford EVs or hybrids, or for people for whom EVs don't make sense, or for car enthusiasts like us who think EVs are dumb anyways. I think that's the whole reason they're looking at this new mileage tax instead of the conventional fuel tax.

[Cookie Monster]

Oregon has no annual inspections.  Only emissions checks for vehicles owned in the Portland or Medford metro areas required every other year.

They could just do what my insurance company does - send you a document every once in a while asking you to write your odometer readings and to give proof. Granted you could lie on those (and people do) but I think it'd be a better system than GPS readings.

[MX793]

Hmm... at an average rate of 12000 miles per year, that'd come out to $180/year. Honestly not a big deal for most people, especially if gasoline taxes are reduced.

It just sucks that now your mileage will be monitored, including where you drive and probably your speeds as well.

Sounds like gasoline taxes are staying in place and will be unchanged.

EVs and hybrids aside, fuel taxes are pretty much the perfect way to tax highway use.  Vehicles that are driven more do more wear and tear on the roads and will use more fuel.  Heavier vehicles, which do more wear and tear on the roads per mile than lighter ones, also generally get worse fuel economy and will use more fuel per mile.

Maybe they should just levy a "use tax" or fee on EVs and hybrids if they feel they aren't paying their fair share to use the roads by avoiding fuel taxes.

[Cookie Monster]

Sounds like gasoline taxes are staying in place and will be unchanged.

EVs and hybrids aside, fuel taxes are pretty much the perfect way to tax highway use.  Vehicles that are driven more do more wear and tear on the roads and will use more fuel.  Heavier vehicles, which do more wear and tear on the roads per mile than lighter ones, also generally get worse fuel economy and will use more fuel per mile.

Maybe they should just levy a "use tax" or fee on EVs and hybrids if they feel they aren't paying their fair share to use the roads by avoiding fuel taxes.

"Drivers will still pay the gas tax at the pump, however they will receive a credit for the difference at the end of the month."

I'm not exactly sure what that means, but it sounds like you won't have to pay the full/normal amount of gas taxes each month.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Sounds like gasoline taxes are staying in place and will be unchanged.

EVs and hybrids aside, fuel taxes are pretty much the perfect way to tax highway use.  Vehicles that are driven more do more wear and tear on the roads and will use more fuel.  Heavier vehicles, which do more wear and tear on the roads per mile than lighter ones, also generally get worse fuel economy and will use more fuel per mile.

Maybe they should just levy a "use tax" or fee on EVs and hybrids if they feel they aren't paying their fair share to use the roads by avoiding fuel taxes.

That would be smarter, a one time(a year) tax with tab renewal for Hybrid or EV vehicles. Of course that goes against all the tax breaks they use to give to those types of vehicles but when hasn't the government been hypocritical.

[MX793]

"Drivers will still pay the gas tax at the pump, however they will receive a credit for the difference at the end of the month."

I'm not exactly sure what that means, but it sounds like you won't have to pay the full/normal amount of gas taxes each month.

Hmm, yes, sounds like you'd be reimbursed.  Not sure what they mean by "the difference".  Maybe if you have a gas guzzler and you pay more in fuel taxes than if you simply charged by the mile?  And if that's the case, those driving tanks will actually have a benefit since they could potentially end up paying less in taxes while doing more wear and tear on the roads than other vehicles (another reason a flat mileage tax is no good).

[SVT666]

My concern is that now they will have a record of everywhere you went and if you broke traffic laws.  I wonder if they will pass a law stating that you will receive speeding tickets based on your GPS info.

[Cookie Monster]

My concern is that now they will have a record of everywhere you went and if you broke traffic laws.  I wonder if they will pass a law stating that you will receive speeding tickets based on your GPS info.

If they did that I'd just ride my bicycle.

[MX793]

My concern is that now they will have a record of everywhere you went and if you broke traffic laws.  I wonder if they will pass a law stating that you will receive speeding tickets based on your GPS info.

Theoretically, something like E-ZPass or SunPass automatic toll systems could be used to track movements (albeit to a much more limited capacity than a GPS) or determine speed between toll booths.  Never heard of someone getting a ticket because their E-ZPass registered that they averaged something greater than the posted speed limit between toll booths.

I suspect someone could set up the GPS-based odometer to not store location data (clear location memory cache every few minutes?) but record distances traveled.

Still not a fan, personally.  It has some major shortcomings compared to a traditional fuel tax beyond the privacy aspect.

[shp4man]

The gas tax hasn't risen since 1993. Modern cars get better MPG, the roads are falling apart, and the pussies in Congress won't raise the tax rate.
That's the gist of the problem.

[MX793]

The gas tax hasn't risen since 1993. Modern cars get better MPG, the roads are falling apart, and the pussies in Congress won't raise the tax rate.
That's the gist of the problem.

Federal fuel taxes fund interstates, but not state roadways.

[Byteme]

Hmm... at an average rate of 12000 miles per year, that'd come out to $180/year. Honestly not a big deal for most people, especially if gasoline taxes are reduced.

It just sucks that now your mileage will be monitored, including where you drive and probably your speeds as well.

I don't know what the average gas mileage is for Oregon vehicle owners, but that $180 equates to what someone would pay today or Oregon's part of the gas tax if their vehicle got an average of about 20.5 MPG combined mileage.   Motorists would still be on the hook for the 18.4 cents per gallon federal tax, an additional $102.  Guys driving gas hogs would benefit, those driving economy cars would suffer.

Why change the gas tax?  Why not just impose an annual fee on electrics and hybrids based on odometer mileage and assess it annually when registration is renewed. 

[Byteme]

Federal fuel taxes fund interstates, but not state roadways.

besides the Interstate system they fund bridge replacement, I think a large portion of the U. S. highway system, some mass transit initiatives and a leaking underground tank fund.    Yeah, some of your gas taxes are going to fund someone's ride to work on the bus.   


As has been pointed out Congress needs to man up and increase the federal gas tax by at least 5 cents a gallon.

[Byteme]

GPS? Why not just use odometer readings at inspections?

It's so easy to disconnect the speedometer/odometer or reset it on older cars.   

[12,000 RPM]

It's so easy to disconnect the speedometer/odometer or reset it on older cars.

Im thinkin most OBD II cars will have mileage logs on the ECU. Cant remember if my 99 Maxima had a digital odo....

[Eye of the Tiger]

http://www.thesignaljammer.com/products/GPS-Jammer.html

[Madman]

Stupid, stupid idea.

Just raise the damn gas tax a few cents and and forget about all this GPS nonsense.

Add a registration surcharge to anyone who wants to drive a glorified golf cart when they renew their plates.  Job done.

[giant_mtb]

What's to stop someone from disconnecting it?  Unless it's wired into the ignition control or some other integral function of the vehicle, I'd be tearing that shit out in a heartbeat.  And what about miles not on public roads?  What about ORV trails, logging roads, etc.?  If I drive 50 miles on private logging roads, am I gonna be taxed just 'cause mileage or is it sophisticated enough to differentiate? 

[giant_mtb]

http://www.thesignaljammer.com/products/GPS-Jammer.html

One of the reviews...

"Great but one drawback:  Rating 4/5 stars
Great unit but unfortunately it only works when it has power. Unless your power outlet runs "hot" when the vehicle is off, the unit will power off when the vehicle is off."

It only works when it has power?!?  No fucking way.  What a drawback.  What do you mean it doesn't just keep working with no power?!

[Soup DeVille]

The gas tax hasn't risen since 1993. Modern cars get better MPG, the roads are falling apart, and the pussies in Congress won't raise the tax rate.
That's the gist of the problem.

It has in my state. This is a state law, BTW.

[Soup DeVille]

One of the reviews...

"Great but one drawback:  Rating 4/5 stars
Great unit but unfortunately it only works when it has power. Unless your power outlet runs "hot" when the vehicle is off, the unit will power off when the vehicle is off."

It only works when it has power?!?  No fucking way.  What a drawback.  What do you mean it doesn't just keep working with no power?!

Hey, I once had to explain why I couldn't put a light on top of a panel that would light up to show that it had been unplugged.

[Byteme]

What's to stop someone from disconnecting it?  Unless it's wired into the ignition control or some other integral function of the vehicle, I'd be tearing that shit out in a heartbeat.  And what about miles not on public roads?  What about ORV trails, logging roads, etc.?  If I drive 50 miles on private logging roads, am I gonna be taxed just 'cause mileage or is it sophisticated enough to differentiate?

If you were paying tax on the gallons you'd pay it regardless of where you used it, so why not. 

The people getting a break with a mileage based tax would be people buying gas for boats, lawn equipment, generators, etc.   I wonder if the state thought about that.   

[Soup DeVille]

What's to stop someone from disconnecting it?  Unless it's wired into the ignition control or some other integral function of the vehicle, I'd be tearing that shit out in a heartbeat.  And what about miles not on public roads?  What about ORV trails, logging roads, etc.?  If I drive 50 miles on private logging roads, am I gonna be taxed just 'cause mileage or is it sophisticated enough to differentiate? 

Are you also going to be taxed for mileage that youre being towed?

[r0tor]

I find it disgusting to have a GPS tracking my every move in my car... However our smart phones already do the same thing