Audi A4

[MrH]

The new Jetta? They've been out since 2011!

[giant_mtb]

Time flies.

[Raza]

Glad I got outta the A4 game when I did.  Every time I see a newer Jetta, it looks just like my car, especially since mine was a base model without the fancy LED/HID headlights...the halogen headlights on the newer base Jettas are essentially identical to the ones that were on my A4.





I mean, they're basically the same car as it is, but the new Jettas are so similar to the looks of my 2010.

They don't look that much alike.

[12,000 RPM]

They need to take away the rulers and straight edges at Inglostadt

[Raza]

They need to take away the rulers and straight edges at Inglostadt

Yeah, that way every car they make can look like the bulbous crap the Japanese make.  Look, our cars are much soft and round!  Very happy happy car! 

[giant_mtb]

They don't look that much alike.

Two separate reflector lenses. Orange marker light on the outside. Opaque strip underneath for running light and blinker.  Same design, slightly different shape.

[12,000 RPM]

Yeah, that way every car they make can look like the bulbous crap the Japanese make.  Look, our cars are much soft and round!  Very happy happy car!

Naw, no need for hyperbole. It's clear VWAG is in a state of design paralysis. Peter Schreyer implemented a culture of fear that he has now carried over to Hyundai/Kia, who have also adopted the design strategy of "cautious evolution". B9 may very well be brilliant but when a B8 that looks exactly the same is in the same lot at a $10K discount nobody will care.

[SJ_GTI]

Kind of agree with giant_mtb. I like the way my Audi looks of course, but even when I bought it (in 2010) it was on the conservative side (IMHO).

[SJ_GTI]

FWIW, other websites are reporting that there will be no more manual transmission for the S4.

To add insult to injury, they are also replacing the 7-speed DSG with an 8-speed slushbox. 

S4 is now officially a luxury car with minimal sporting pretensions. Oh well.

[Cookie Monster]

FWIW, other websites are reporting that there will be no more manual transmission for the S4.

To add insult to injury, they are also replacing the 7-speed DSG with an 8-speed slushbox. 

S4 is now officially a luxury car with minimal sporting pretensions. Oh well.

Wat.

Fuck.

[SJ_GTI]

http://wot.motortrend.com/2017_audi_s4_debuts_with_354_hp_drops_manual_option.html

[Eye of the Tiger]

Wtf

[SJ_GTI]

Honestly I am not sure why they are even calling it an S4. Just call it what it is: the A4 3.0T (equivalent to BMW 335i).

[12,000 RPM]

335i has option for 6mt and mechanical lsd though

And doesn't hang its engine 100% ahead of the front axle

And doesn't have shit interior

335i is still the low key pick of the litter since the infiniti is auto only

[Cookie Monster]

335i has option for 6mt and mechanical lsd though

And doesn't hang its engine 100% ahead of the front axle

And doesn't have shit interior

335i is still the low key pick of the litter since the infiniti is auto only

Pretty sure they moved the engine back on the A4 for the B8...

Of course, it's still auto only (I mean come on you have an excellent DSG, use it for fuck's sake) and looks bland as hell.

If I wanted an auto sedan I'd be looking at the C-Class. If I wanted a stick, I'd just go straight to the Chevy SS. Fuck the rest of the competition. This segment is so stagnant.

[Galaxy]

Honestly I am not sure why they are even calling it an S4. Just call it what it is: the A4 3.0T (equivalent to BMW 335i).

The S4 has always been an equivalent to the 335i. The equivalent to the M3 has always been the RS4.

335i has option for 6mt and mechanical lsd though

The S4 has as standard a locking diff center, and rear, and as an option active torque distribution on the rear axel.

And doesn't hang its engine 100% ahead of the front axle

The S4 does not have 100% of it's engine in front of the axle.

And doesn't have shit interior

The interior has been problematic on the 3 Series. They somewhat fixed that with the facelift.

[GoCougs]

FWIW, other websites are reporting that there will be no more manual transmission for the S4.

To add insult to injury, they are also replacing the 7-speed DSG with an 8-speed slushbox. 

S4 is now officially a luxury car with minimal sporting pretensions. Oh well.

Inevitable. The B8 S4 stopped the marque from being an enthusiast's car. I'm sure manual take rate was dismal, as it is for any "luxury" car. DSG doesn't really fit a "luxury" car either. Shame really.

[MrH]

The current DSG couldn't handle the new torque requirement.  Wasn't worth it to design a new one

[12,000 RPM]

The current DSG couldn't handle the new torque requirement.  Wasn't worth it to design a new one

Doesn't the RS7 have a dsg

I call shenanigans

Anyone who buys a 2016 S4 is screwing themselves

[GoCougs]

No, the RS7 has the 8sp slushie.

Lots of DSGs handle as much or more torque - M3/M4, M5/M6, RS5, GTR, etc., etc. Audi just doesn't care, or more appropriately, Audi knows the market is just as happy, if not a bit happier, with a slushie AT.

[MrH]

Doesn't the RS7 have a dsg

I call shenanigans

Anyone who buys a 2016 S4 is screwing themselves

False.  RS7 has the same 8-speed as the new S4 I'm pretty sure.

[GoCougs]

I should also note they've been using the 354 hp V6T + 8sp slushie in the SQ5 for a while.

[MexicoCityM3]

I should also note they've been using the 354 hp V6T + 8sp slushie in the SQ5 for a while.

I think the SQ5 engine is still supercharged and this new one in the S4 is a turbo.

[12,000 RPM]

It can work if they find it right. Basically lock the torque converter from beyond a walking pace

But still.

I'm curious about the turbo setup. Hot v? At twin scroll hot v turbo will be huge for longitudinal engine cars

[GoCougs]

I think the SQ5 engine is still supercharged and this new one in the S4 is a turbo.

You're right - totally missed it. Both have 354 hp, so I assumed it was the SQ5 motor.

[giant_mtb]

You're right

[GoCougs]

It can work if they find it right. Basically lock the torque converter from beyond a walking pace

But still.

I'm curious about the turbo setup. Hot v? At twin scroll hot v turbo will be huge for longitudinal engine cars

Have to be careful there, esp. with turbo cars, as that can exacerbate lag (and why traditionally, ATs were much better for old school turbos because they had lots of lag, and a loose(ish) converter mitigated lag somewhat).

There are articles out there on GM's 8sp in the Z06 and of course the ZF 8 speed used by ze Germans. It's more about stuff they've done with clutches and the like to improve response. Pretty interesting.

Yes, it can work well, but turbo motor + slushie AT (even if a good one) <  N/A or supercharged motor + DSG or M/T for feel and response. But then again, the S4 is now basically a C400 or 335i - dumbed down for "luxury" purposes.

[68_427]

FWIW, other websites are reporting that there will be no more manual transmission for the S4.

To add insult to injury, they are also replacing the 7-speed DSG with an 8-speed slushbox. 

S4 is now officially a luxury car with minimal sporting pretensions. Oh well.

No big deal.  The RS6/7 use the ZF 8 speed.

[12,000 RPM]

Have to be careful there, esp. with turbo cars, as that can exacerbate lag (and why traditionally, ATs were much better for old school turbos because they had lots of lag, and a loose(ish) converter mitigated lag somewhat).

There are articles out there on GM's 8sp in the Z06 and of course the ZF 8 speed used by ze Germans. It's more about stuff they've done with clutches and the like to improve response. Pretty interesting.

Yes, it can work well, but turbo motor + slushie AT (even if a good one) <  N/A or supercharged motor + DSG or M/T for feel and response. But then again, the S4 is now basically a C400 or 335i - dumbed down for "luxury" purposes.

A hot v twin scroll turbo pretty much eliminates lag, at least on the turbine side. Compressor side will be normal. Auto boxes, even with fast lockup, are great for turbos as there is essentially no pause between gears, which in a WOT situation only means lag at initial tip in- which again is mitigated by the hot v.

My only real concern with that setup is heat. Whole hot sideof the turbo will have to be insulated or beat soak will be problematic. Hardly a turbo only issue though... NA VQ cars have bad heat soak in the summer

[MexicoCityM3]

The S4 has always been an equivalent to the 335i. The equivalent to the M3 has always been the RS4.

Back in the late 90s and early 00s the S4s were pretty good competitors both to the E36 & E46 M3s. Back then you could make an argument that the RS4 was positioned above both.

Starting with the E90, the M3 did pull away from the S4 and today what you say is true. But it hasn't been always so.