New for 2016

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

There's a difference between "Not a Camry" and "able to see out of it".

I driven a couple and the sightlines were no worse than my old drop top Z28 or my moms old CTS. Not great but not bad enough that it would be a deal breaker.

[SVT666]

I driven a couple and the sightlines were no worse than my old drop top Z28 or my moms old CTS. Not great but not bad enough that it would be a deal breaker.

I disagree.  I've driven a couple different CTS' and neither were nearly as bad as the Camaro.  I drove a Camaro in Seattle and at a 4-way stop I couldn't even see the car to my right, and at a stop light across a 4 lane road I couldn't even see the stop light because of the header.  I have had that happen in many cars at intersections with two lanes, but never 4 lanes.  I remember thinking the only window that you can actually see out of properly is the driver's door glass.

[Laconian]

That's because the car was trapped in a Seattle pavement pothole.

[SVT666]

[68_427]

That's because the car was trapped in a Seattle pavement pothole.

Are they bad there?  I was considering moving to the area next summer

[12,000 RPM]

Also, ND Miata:

-more expensive than the old car
-less hp than the old car (unheard of in this day and age!)

Why should I care?

Because its faster than the old car (by an appreciable margin)

And its better than the old car

All that said, Id rather take like 10K and go apeshit on an NA/NB. Wouldnt take much at all, all I would want is like 300WHP

[Raza]

You sure changed your tune. After you drove the V6 in 2010 you said you might buy one.

Yeah, my thoughts did change. Seeing them around more and being in a couple, it's just not something I would want to deal with. I love the Mustang, too, so that's part of it. Also, now, every car seems huge and heavy.

It didn't exactly age well, either. It was never really a beauty, but it's downright ugly now.

[Raza]

Also, ND Miata:

-more expensive than the old car
-less hp than the old car (unheard of in this day and age!)

Why should I care?

Faster, lighter.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

I disagree.  I've driven a couple different CTS' and neither were nearly as bad as the Camaro.  I drove a Camaro in Seattle and at a 4-way stop I couldn't even see the car to my right, and at a stop light across a 4 lane road I couldn't even see the stop light because of the header.  I have had that happen in many cars at intersections with two lanes, but never 4 lanes.  I remember thinking the only window that you can actually see out of properly is the driver's door glass.

Maybe because I'm on the short side it doesn't effect me as much as a person with a larger frame.

[MX793]

Maybe because I'm on the short side it doesn't effect me as much as a person with a larger frame.

I'm average height and had visibility issues with the Camaro.  I had to crank the seat up as high as it would go to even approach what I consider an acceptable view over the cowl, and then I had almost no headroom left and the low header cut into my ability to see things like traffic lights.  And the huge A pillars could hide a horse.

[MX793]

Yeah, my thoughts did change. Seeing them around more and being in a couple, it's just not something I would want to deal with. I love the Mustang, too, so that's part of it. Also, now, every car seems huge and heavy.

It didn't exactly age well, either. It was never really a beauty, but it's downright ugly now.

I still think the pre-facelift Gen5s look really good.  The facelift was ugly from day 1.

[Raza]

I still think the pre-facelift Gen5s look really good.  The facelift was ugly from day 1.

I didn't even realize there was a facelift.

[MX793]

I didn't even realize there was a facelift.

2014 got a different grille, bumpers, headlamps and tail lamps.

[Laconian]

Are they bad there?  I was considering moving to the area next summer

Eh, it's the traffic that's the shitty part of living here.

[SVT666]

Eh, it's the traffic that's the shitty part of living here.

Worst traffic I have ever experienced is Seattle traffic.

[GoCougs]

Are they bad there?  I was considering moving to the area next summer

No, not really though traffic is indeed absolutely awful and it's only going to get worse. It can be manageable if you live in the right areas (many times that means $$$$) and drive at the right times but even then you'll still get regularly screwed. The whole traffic thing is something I've been reevaluating living here - it's a major time, stress, and life quality detriment.

Lots of reasons why traffic is bad here but a good example is WtP authorize spending on such esteemed projects like this "wildlife corridor" rather than more lanes or whatever (yes, this is a real thing and not a joke). There will be many of these, but over and under the freeway:

[68_427]

Ah see I have a friend in Bangor I'd probably live with and try to get a job at the ship yards or something.

[Payman]

No, not really though traffic is indeed absolutely awful and it's only going to get worse. It can be manageable if you live in the right areas (many times that means $$$$) and drive at the right times but even then you'll still get regularly screwed. The whole traffic thing is something I've been reevaluating living here - it's a major time, stress, and life quality detriment.

Lots of reasons why traffic is bad here but a good example is WtP authorize spending on such esteemed projects like this "wildlife corridor" rather than more lanes or whatever (yes, this is a real thing and not a joke). There will be many of these, but over and under the freeway:

Well, their heart's in the right place...

Toronto is horrible. ONE major east-west thoroughfare, the 401, that's 20 lanes wide in places (busiest highway in the world). They built an express highway to alleviate the problem (407), and then sold it to a group of investors (Spanish teacher's pension plan(?)) and turned into a toll highway. It costs $18 to cross Toronto on this road, so traffic is pretty light and the 401 is as congested as ever.

[GoCougs]

Oh, well, that is on the other side of the Sound which is basically another state . It's a different scene over there.

[Payman]

Montreal did it right. They built a new highway to bypass the city (hwy 30) and charge a flat $3 toll.

[SJ_GTI]

Well, their heart's in the right place...

Toronto is horrible. ONE major east-west thoroughfare, the 401, that's 20 lanes wide in places (busiest highway in the world). They built an express highway to alleviate the problem (407), and then sold it to a group of investors (Spanish teacher's pension plan(?)) and turned into a toll highway. It costs $18 to cross Toronto on this road, so traffic is pretty light and the 401 is as congested as ever.

Yeah was never a fan of Toronto traffic. I don't think I used the toll road once the entire time I lived there.

When I moved there I intended to get an apartment/condo downtown. But after "testing" the commute a few times (I was working in a suburb called Woodbridge) I decided it wasn't worth the hassle and decided to live in the same town I worked (which, as it turned out, was just as expensive as living downtown...but at least my commute was ~5 mins instead of ~45 mins).

[GoCougs]

The huge mistake of the US interstate system was running major freeways through city centers.

[Laconian]

Ah see I have a friend in Bangor I'd probably live with and try to get a job at the ship yards or something.

Oh, the Kitsap Peninsula is uncongested and inexpensive. You have pretty easy access to the "mainland" via 3 different ferry routes, and the Hood Canal bridge will take you to the Olympic Peninsula if you want to road trip it to the rain forest or see some beaches. Lots of military folks there, so more brodozers and Pontiacs, but you'll avoid the yuppies at least.

[Laconian]

I'd totes live on Bainbridge Island if I had a jerb on the Kitsap side.

[Raza]

2014 got a different grille, bumpers, headlamps and tail lamps.

Hmm, I never noticed.

[Madman]

The huge mistake of the US interstate system was running major freeways through city centers.

Where should they have built them, in the middle of nowhere?

[MrH]

Where should they have built them, in the middle of nowhere?

Go drive through your beloved Europe and you'll understand.

[GoCougs]

Yes, the point is, build the freeway sorta near and then have spur lines from the freeway to the city.

[12,000 RPM]

Yep, the belt system works great. I like Charlotte's highway layout. They just need to expand the main artery.

[veeman]

I've rented Camaros a few times.  Since they're rentals, they're always V6 slushbox strippers.  I don't hate them.  The car is not meant for daily family hauling, as no coupe is, so back seat room and big trunk aren't that important.  Sight lines suck but I got used to guesstimating where the front of the car was when parking and I don't tailgate even In heavy traffic.  The car is mostly about affordable macho style and power.  Although I don't know from experience, I've heard the IROC-Z Camaro from the 1980s was a terrible car.  It looked damn cool however for its time.