Updated 2016 Accord

[12,000 RPM]

If Mercedes is leasing out a car, it's getting that car back at the end of the lease period. So they still have a strong interest in their value remaining at that point.

That's the power of the badge. People are OK with their Benzo being in the shop, in or out of warranty.

[CJ]

Not from what the coupe indicates. Engine easily overwhelms the chassis. The 4 banger Sport 6MT is the sweet spot. V6 needs an LSD, better brakes and a better suspension to handle the power.

Who's going go buy it NEW? Answer: 8 people. Everyone goes on and on about the cars they wish were in production, but what's the likelihood of anyone ACTUALLY purchasing them? It's almost zero. Honda has better things to do.

[12,000 RPM]

Who's going go buy it NEW? Answer: 8 people. Everyone goes on and on about the cars they wish were in production, but what's the likelihood of anyone ACTUALLY purchasing them? It's almost zero. Honda has better things to do.

I didn't say it would be a hot seller. Just that the V6 needs certain things to handle the HP.

[GoCougs]

If Mercedes is leasing out a car, it's getting that car back at the end of the lease period. So they still have a strong interest in their value remaining at that point.

Their interest is getting the lessee to pay for that ginormous amount of depreciation.

[GoCougs]

Who's going go buy it NEW? Answer: 8 people. Everyone goes on and on about the cars they wish were in production, but what's the likelihood of anyone ACTUALLY purchasing them? It's almost zero. Honda has better things to do.

Well, Honda better start doing those things - the Accord is on the edge of falling out of the top 10 sales chart...

[CJ]

Well, Honda better start doing those things - the Accord is on the edge of falling out of the top 10 sales chart...

That's what I'm referring to.

[ifcar]

Their interest is getting the lessee to pay for that ginormous amount of depreciation.

Sure, as long as they can get away with the high payments.

[AutobahnSHO]

Who's going go buy it NEW? Answer: 8 people. Everyone goes on and on about the cars they wish were in production, but what's the likelihood of anyone ACTUALLY purchasing them? It's almost zero. Honda has better things to do.

No one makes a lot of money off the WOW COOL cars, but they go a long way towards boosting the overall brand image. I'd bet a lot of people go to go look at the new WRX for example, and drive off with an Impreza...

[Laconian]

An Accord with a stick isn't wow cool. Laypeople consider a stickshift to be a liability.

One of the big problems with MT acceptance in the US is that cars bought by couples need to be drivable by both parties. There might be a few people that can still drive stick, but what are the odds that their spouses can too?

If 20% of people drive stick (assuming equal distribution by gender which obv. is an oversimplification), that's 20%*20%=4%.

[Eye of the Tiger]

An Accord with a stick isn't wow cool. Laypeople consider a stickshift to be a liability.

One of the big problems with MT acceptance in the US is that cars bought by couples need to be drivable by both parties. There might be a few people that can still drive stick, but what are the odds that their spouses can too?

If 20% of people drive stick (assuming equal distribution by gender which obv. is an oversimplification), that's 20%*20%=4%.

Stick should be mandatory to pass driver's ed. So should other things. Graduated licensing, too. You can't drive an automatic with more than 100 hp until such and such.

[Madman]

You can't drive an automatic with more than 100 hp until such and such.

So that leaves the Smart ForTwo (70 HP), the Chevrolet Spark (84 HP), the Mitsubishi Mirage (74 HP) and the Scion iQ (94 HP) as the only 2015 model year cars a new driver could have?  Oh, there's also a used 2011-14 Mazda 2 (an even 100 HP) which just sneaks in under the "no more then 100 HP" threshold.

Doesn't leave much choice, does it?

[12,000 RPM]

No one makes a lot of money off the WOW COOL cars, but they go a long way towards boosting the overall brand image. I'd bet a lot of people go to go look at the new WRX for example, and drive off with an Impreza...

Nah halo cars are a myth. Case in point,  Honda and Toyota are the top selling Japanese brands and they have the most boring lineups. The gtr is not helping move Sentras

[Eye of the Tiger]

So that leaves the Smart ForTwo (70 HP), the Chevrolet Spark (84 HP), the Mitsubishi Mirage (74 HP) and the Scion iQ (94 HP) as the only 2015 model year cars a new driver could have?  Oh, there's also a used 2011-14 Mazda 2 (an even 100 HP) which just sneaks in under the "no more then 100 HP" threshold.

Doesn't leave much choice, does it?

The market would adjust.
So make it 150. Or under 3000 lbs. Make it something.

[AutobahnSHO]

Nah halo cars are a myth. Case in point,  Honda and Toyota are the top selling Japanese brands and they have the most boring lineups. The gtr is not helping move Sentras

They're coasting on dependability rep.

Look at Subaru's market share the last 10yrs. Only growing.

[GoCougs]

An Accord with a stick isn't wow cool. Laypeople consider a stickshift to be a liability.

One of the big problems with MT acceptance in the US is that cars bought by couples need to be drivable by both parties. There might be a few people that can still drive stick, but what are the odds that their spouses can too?

If 20% of people drive stick (assuming equal distribution by gender which obv. is an oversimplification), that's 20%*20%=4%.

And then, of course with most new/newer models, the AT-equipped version of a vehicle is as quick or quicker and usually gets better MPG vs. the MT version .

[ifcar]

Nah halo cars are a myth. Case in point,  Honda and Toyota are the top selling Japanese brands and they have the most boring lineups. The gtr is not helping move Sentras

Halo cars work if there's some connection to the lower model. The GTR would help sell an inexpensive sporty coupe if Nissan were to offer one. But the GTR is less of a halo over a Sentra than something just completely unrelated aside from the Nissan name.

Similarly, the Corvette would never have helped sell a Chevette or Aveo, but it lent performance cred to the Camaro.

[Raza]

Who's going go buy it NEW? Answer: 8 people. Everyone goes on and on about the cars they wish were in production, but what's the likelihood of anyone ACTUALLY purchasing them? It's almost zero. Honda has better things to do.

And this is why cars suck nowadays.  The race to mediocrity.  In the future, all will be Camcords with colors assigned to you. 

[Raza]

And then, of course with most new/newer models, the AT-equipped version of a vehicle is as quick or quicker and usually gets better MPG vs. the MT version .

That only matters to mag racers and penny pinching beigeists.  Check it out, my accountant friends! My automatic car gets 1mpg better than the manual version that only costs $500-1200 less! If I keep the car for 80 years, I'll save two dollars! And the 0-60 is....hold on to your pocket protectors.....UNAFFECTED!

[12,000 RPM]

They're coasting on dependability rep.

Look at Subaru's market share the last 10yrs. Only growing.

They are hardly coasting. They make great cars for normal people. And like you say, Subaru's rep comes from its dependability. I have a coworker who drives about 40K a year and lives in the mountains. Every year he gets a new Subaru Outback. He couldn't tell you an STI from a sexually transmitted infection.

Halo cars work if there's some connection to the lower model. The GTR would help sell an inexpensive sporty coupe if Nissan were to offer one. But the GTR is less of a halo over a Sentra than something just completely unrelated aside from the Nissan name.

Similarly, the Corvette would never have helped sell a Chevette or Aveo, but it lent performance cred to the Camaro.

In the grand scheme of things it's irrelevant though. OK, maybe not completely. The Vette and Camaro are probably decent profit engines. But their combined sales pale in comparison to even a measly Cruze.

And Nissan does have an inexpensive sporty coupe. It's actually a mega performance bargain and IMO a better driver's car than the GT-R. It's also bombing in sales and probably won't return for another year Halo cars kind of work within a model range. For example I definitely see a lot of Lancer ES and GTSs with their wheels plastidipped and their exhausts grafted wit fart cans, screaming "I wish I could afford an EVO". I'm sure the Focus ST helps sell Focuses and Fiesta STs. But the effect is really small. Again Toyota and Honda are top selling brands with no halo cars. From a business standpoint halo cars are a low key waste of time.

[12,000 RPM]

And then, of course with most new/newer models, the AT-equipped version of a vehicle is as quick or quicker and usually gets better MPG vs. the MT version .

Some people are willing to make the sacrifice to enjoy driving. Everyone doesn't live in spec charts and spreadsheets.

And this is why cars suck nowadays.  The race to mediocrity.  In the future, all will be Camcords with colors assigned to you. 

I would argue the opposite, actually. You, a self identifying automotive purist, went from a Boxster, arguably the purest expression of a sports car in the modern era this side of an Elise, to a JETTA, and enjoyed it thoroughly + still recommend it to this day. You speak high praises of a Civic Si. Etc. Cars like the Fiesta ST, GTI, even a run of the mill Mazda 3 deliver driving engagement in spades. We are in the midst of a driver's car era, because mainstream cars provide such great platforms.... which makes taking on the sacrifices of a full on sports car pointless for most people. Your Z4 is a great sports car, but it's more of a statement of personal expression than a necessity for driving thrills, over say, a 330i ZHP. ZHP might only be able to deliver like 90% of the engagement and performance of the Z4.... but that's pretty fucking good for a car that can seat 5.

I used to be an advocate of the multiple car lineup. "Get the right tool for the job". Then when I had the Civic and Z at the same time I stopped driving the Z. Maybe some people can legit do the multiple car thing. And I think there may still be some legit cases for it. For example my wife and MIL do a lot of garage sales. Plus we are gonna start on kids soon. We can all probably share a minivan. But outside of special needs, I feel like given a choice of multiple cars people will gravitate to the one that best serves their driving needs the best 90% of the time. And for most people.... even enthusiasts.... that car is probably not a sports car.

[AutobahnSHO]

From a business standpoint halo cars are a low key waste of time.

True, but they have to give the enginerds something to play around with to come up with new ideas...

[Raza]

For the record, I don't call myself a purist anymore. Just an asshole.

I'm on my phone, about to get into the car, so I'll respond to the rest later.

[Eye of the Tiger]

For the record, I don't call myself a purist anymore. Just an asshole.

I'm on my phone, about to get into the car, so I'll respond to the rest later.

Pure asshole.

[Laconian]

That only matters to mag racers and penny pinching beigeists.  Check it out, my accountant friends! My automatic car gets 1mpg better than the manual version that only costs $500-1200 less! If I keep the car for 80 years, I'll save two dollars! And the 0-60 is....hold on to your pocket protectors.....UNAFFECTED!

[GoCougs]

That only matters to mag racers and penny pinching beigeists.  Check it out, my accountant friends! My automatic car gets 1mpg better than the manual version that only costs $500-1200 less! If I keep the car for 80 years, I'll save two dollars! And the 0-60 is....hold on to your pocket protectors.....UNAFFECTED!

Meh, you're way overthinking it - it matters to people who want cars that are better to drive (most cars suck with a M/T, esp. with AWD and turbos) and get better mpg (the car that is subject of this post has a ~15% advantage mpg for the AT).

[Eye of the Tiger]

Meh, you're way overthinking it - it matters to people who want cars that are better to drive (most cars suck with a M/T, esp. with AWD and turbos) and get better mpg (the car that is subject of this post has a ~15% advantage mpg for the AT).

Saying things does not make them so. There isn't an automatic transmission in the world that is better to drive than its manual counterpart. See what I mean?

[Raza]

(most cars suck with a M/T, esp. with AWD and turbos)

Uh, what? Just because you're an unthusiast doesn't mean everyone else is.

[Cookie Monster]

Saying things does not make them so. There isn't an automatic transmission in the world that is better to drive than its manual counterpart. See what I mean?

But that is a true statement.

[GoCougs]

Uh, what? Just because you're an unthusiast doesn't mean everyone else is.

Like many of your attacks, this is predicated on a rejectable premise.

Feel free to peruse the top 30 sellers in the USA and do your best to try to convince which cars are "better" with a M/T. I'll give you of course the Accord Coupe V6, and then I'll be generous and give you the Wrangler and maybe the Tacoma, but other than that? Knock yourself out .

As cars get ever more complicated and integrated in design (AWD, turbos, hybrids, self driving/parking, etc.) the worse cars become to be driven with a M/T (ergo, their escalating disappearance, esp. in ultra hi-po cars).

[12,000 RPM]

Like many of your attacks, this is predicated on a rejectable premise.

Feel free to peruse the top 30 sellers in the USA and do your best to try to convince which cars are "better" with a M/T. I'll give you of course the Accord Coupe V6, and then I'll be generous and give you the Wrangler and maybe the Tacoma, but other than that? Knock yourself out .

As cars get ever more complicated and integrated in design (AWD, turbos, hybrids, self driving/parking, etc.) the worse cars become to be driven with a M/T (ergo, their escalating disappearance, esp. in ultra hi-po cars).

Dude your premise sucks

Civic, Accord and Focus are definitely better with stickshifts

Rest of the list sucks to drive beyond repair

Cars like the Rustang, 911, corvette, gti still have like 50% manual take rates

You are completely talking out of your ass