Driven

[Raza]

If not, you think Troy would be up for a trade?

[JYODER240]

Did you ever end up driving an Elise Raza?

[Raza]

Did you ever end up driving an Elise Raza?

Almost a month ago.  Maybe longer.  That's what I mean when I say "The Lotus Elise is the most fantastic car I've ever driven".

:)

Expect an Automobear article on it soon.

[Rupert]

Do it!

[TBR]

I am sure they would do the swap for you, but if they wouldn't a body shop would.  

[JYODER240]

Did you ever end up driving an Elise Raza?

Almost a month ago.  Maybe longer.  That's what I mean when I say "The Lotus Elise is the most fantastic car I've ever driven".

:)

Expect an Automobear article on it soon.

I must have missed that , I really want one but I dont think it would make it through the snow and I dont want to mess with a winter-beater

[Raza]

Did you ever end up driving an Elise Raza?

Almost a month ago.  Maybe longer.  That's what I mean when I say "The Lotus Elise is the most fantastic car I've ever driven".

:)

Expect an Automobear article on it soon.

I must have missed that , I really want one but I dont think it would make it through the snow and I dont want to mess with a winter-beater

I honestly don't think it would be that bad.  Probably better than the GTO, anyway.

With the Elise, the only thing holding you back would be ground clearance.  You don't have traction control or stability management, but you've got a rear weight bias (I hear 911s handle snow beautifully, and so many people in Mustangs stuff their boots with sandbags) and only 190bhp.  If you're good with your clutch and light with your foot, you could probably make it through 3 or 4 inches.

[JYODER240]

Did you ever end up driving an Elise Raza?

Almost a month ago.  Maybe longer.  That's what I mean when I say "The Lotus Elise is the most fantastic car I've ever driven".

:)

Expect an Automobear article on it soon.

I must have missed that , I really want one but I dont think it would make it through the snow and I dont want to mess with a winter-beater

I honestly don't think it would be that bad.  Probably better than the GTO, anyway.

With the Elise, the only thing holding you back would be ground clearance.  You don't have traction control or stability management, but you've got a rear weight bias (I hear 911s handle snow beautifully, and so many people in Mustangs stuff their boots with sandbags) and only 190bhp.  If you're good with your clutch and light with your foot, you could probably make it through 3 or 4 inches.

Its the low weight of the Elise that would scare.  Even with its rear weight bias the GTO probably has more weight over the drive wheels for traction. Plus it has more traction for stopping and turning.

[Raza]

I've put the GTO in snow, with TCS on, you'll still probably just spin out.  Remember, the GTO doesn't have any sort of ASM, either, so you've got more weight and more than twice the power and torque.  As Richard Hammond said the traction control system in the GTO [VXR] is "simple, at best".  

[mazda6er]

Are you still gonna bother the drive the Legacy?

[Raza]

Are you still gonna bother the drive the Legacy?

Probably, for posterity's sake.  At least I can get an article.

"The OTHER Subaru You Want to Own"

[SJ_GTI]

I've put the GTO in snow, with TCS on, you'll still probably just spin out.  Remember, the GTO doesn't have any sort of ASM, either, so you've got more weight and more than twice the power and torque.  As Richard Hammond said the traction control system in the GTO [VXR] is "simple, at best".

In my limited experience in the white stuff, traction control/stability control is more of a hinderance than a helper.

The only cars I have had with stability control were my Z3 and my A4. My Grand Prix had traction control but no stability control.

[Raza]

I've put the GTO in snow, with TCS on, you'll still probably just spin out.  Remember, the GTO doesn't have any sort of ASM, either, so you've got more weight and more than twice the power and torque.  As Richard Hammond said the traction control system in the GTO [VXR] is "simple, at best".

In my limited experience in the white stuff, traction control/stability control is more of a hinderance than a helper.

The only cars I have had with stability control were my Z3 and my A4. My Grand Prix had traction control but no stability control.

TCS/ASM has its place, but you couldn't drive through snow the whole time with it on, and you could with it off.  The Mercedes has ESP that was so intrusive, you couldn't get moving sometimes, and you couldn't get throttle steer, obviously.  The Passat only has ASR, which is a TCS by another name.  That is always off.

[MaxPower]

I thought the no-scoop hood was a no cost option for this year.  So the dealer should be able to swap it out for you if you desire.

[giant_mtb]

Are you still gonna bother the drive the Legacy?

Probably, for posterity's sake.  At least I can get an article.

"The OTHER Subaru You Want to Own"

 

[JYODER240]

My accord has TC but stability control. I usually have it off but if the roads are slick I keep it on because I cant always tell when the tires are spinning.  With it on a little light flashes on my dash.

[JYODER240]

I've put the GTO in snow, with TCS on, you'll still probably just spin out.  Remember, the GTO doesn't have any sort of ASM, either, so you've got more weight and more than twice the power and torque.  As Richard Hammond said the traction control system in the GTO [VXR] is "simple, at best".

Correct me if i'm wrong but doesnt weight help in the snow?  

[ifcar]

If not, you think Troy would be up for a trade?

He has the 5.7-liter.  

[TBR]

He is talking about the hood only.  

[Raza]

I've put the GTO in snow, with TCS on, you'll still probably just spin out.  Remember, the GTO doesn't have any sort of ASM, either, so you've got more weight and more than twice the power and torque.  As Richard Hammond said the traction control system in the GTO [VXR] is "simple, at best".

Correct me if i'm wrong but doesnt weight help in the snow?

Over your drive wheels.  My dad's S320 is terrible in the snow, and my E320 is fine in it.  Just like most things in life, balance is key.  The GTO has a front weigh bias, the Elise has a rear weight bias.

[mazda6er]

I've put the GTO in snow, with TCS on, you'll still probably just spin out.? Remember, the GTO doesn't have any sort of ASM, either, so you've got more weight and more than twice the power and torque.? As Richard Hammond said the traction control system in the GTO [VXR] is "simple, at best".

Correct me if i'm wrong but doesnt weight help in the snow?

Over your drive wheels.  My dad's S320 is terrible in the snow, and my E320 is fine in it.  Just like most things in life, balance is key.  The GTO has a front weigh bias, the Elise has a rear weight bias.

ha ha I imagine things could get pretty dicey if it had a rear weight bias with that 400hp.    

[Raza]

Okay, so I just got back from Colonial Subaru.  I went there to look at the Spec B, and after 15-20 minutes or so of salesmen walking by me as I looked at the trunk and back seat, I decided to seek someone out myself.  I ran into the fellow that I talked to on the phone earlier, and we talked for a bit about the car.  I then told him that I was now leaning towards the STi.  We talked a bit more, wrote down some information, and he goes and talks to his manager.  

He comes back and says "Well, my manager has guys in the back, and they would have to come get the car, since our only one is in the showroom and they'd have to take it out.  Maybe if you come back on Monday or Tuesday with your parents we can get it out"

I say "So this is an age thing."   Not a question, a statement.  I had already told him that I'd driven the GTO alone for an hour, Elise, 350Z, and RX-8.  I was furious.

"No, it's just that the guys are busy, and he doesn't want to pull them off what they're doing."

I say "I don't like jumping through hoops to test drive a car and I don't buy cars without driving them first.  Today is probably the last day I'm shopping.  If I can't find anything to sway me from the GTO, I'm going to put a deposit down and take delivery by Monday or Tuesday."  And I turned to get ready to leave.

"Okay, hold on.  Let me talk to my manager."

So, he and another salesman came back and said that they could just pull it out from where it's parked, and then we can go.  They open the big doors, my guy pulls it out, and I get in.  I'd have been giddy if I weren't so angry.

I got in, adjusted the seat, and found myself in an odd position.  I was too close to the steering wheel, my left foot in the right place, but my right foot was crowding the pedals, and the steering wheel was too low, and I couldn't see the gauges.  I drove off like this, finding at the next stoplight how to tilt the wheel.  That took care of two problems, but my seating position still wasn't great.

But, when you get going there is plenty of power, and comes in great big surges.  There's virtually no turbo lag, and the power comes on all at once.  You get that satisfying whoosh sound, and you fly off.  I drove it for a bit, took some decent corners, shifted hard, having some trouble getting into third.  The gear change felt very light and pretty notchy--not the greatest shifter I've ever driven, and I might even say that the GTO's was significantly better.  I know that the clutch on the GTO is much better--the STi's has a long travel, a vague pickup point, and it's easier to stall.  In a GTO, I swear you can put it in first, pop the clutch, count to two, and then step on the gas and you won't stall.  In the STi, I was on a hill, and these things sometimes make me nervous, since someone is inevitably up your ass and I don't want to fall against someone's Dodge Ram, and I stalled it, trying to get to that point where you can balance the car on the hill with just the clutch and gas, since the light was turning soon and I wanted to have that position.  But, I couldn't get it just right, and I missed it.  It pissed me off, to no end.  I did get it going though, after that, I just fed it more revs and wasn't nearly as delicate as before.  

Revving this car hard felt great, but when it came to the normal driving stuff, it just wasn't as good.  You couldn't really use sixth, since the engine sounded awful under 2000 revs, like something had gone terribly wrong, so I had to keep it over 2000, and that meant no higher than 5th for cruising unless you were on a highway.  But, no, we weren't on a highway, we were on the same highly patrolled road that I got my ticket on, so I was being careful.  I did get a chance to test the handling, though I wasn't able to get it to its limits--not even a hint of tire squeal.  

We got back to the dealership, and I was in disbelief.

I was in disbelief for 3 reasons:
1.  I just drove an STi.  When it first came out, they ran credit checks and had someone else drive you until the final stage of the buying process.
2.  They pulled it out of the showroom for me.  
3.  I didn't like it as much as the GTO.  When I stopped the GTO, I had this feeling "I have to own this car".  I didn't have that with the STi.

The GTO is a true dual sport car.  It's happy everywhere--traveling on the highway, in rush hour traffic, a day at the shops, on a track embarassing Ferrari 355 Spiders, carving up a back road, et al.  The STi is not.  The STi needs revs--it's a total lunatic, and so am I, so I thought I'd love it.  The cars are close, surely, but if all things were equal, I probably wouldn't buy the STi.

To sum up:
The driving position was rubbish
The car has TWO spoilers
The large spoiler fills up your rear view mirror
It attracts more attention than a gay couple in Arkansas

If I had a little more time to fiddle with the seat, I might have been able to find a better position, but when I was in the GTO, it only took two or three seconds and I didn't have to adjust the seat anymore.  

I did tell the guy that if he can come back to me significantly lower on a month to month basis that I'd probably go with the STi, and that means under $500 a month on a lease with inception only down.  He said he could do it, but we'll have to see.  

[Lebowski]

Sounds to me like you like the GTO better - go for it.

The STI has great performance, but I can't get past the styling.  It looks like a 16 year olds car.  You're 20, right?  It might be a great car for you now, but as you get a couple of years older you're going to want something that looks a little more, I don't know, "grown up" (I mean grown up as in not having 2 spoilers and not "attracting more attention than a gay couple in Arkansas").

Go for the GTO.

[Raza]

I may be 20, but I feel like I'm forty.  I always wanted something more grown up.  Since I was 15 I wanted a 528i!  I always wanted a midsize sedan, thinking that I ought to be sensible, and then there's this bit of me that often wins over that is totally mad, totally barmy, and says things like "the less practical the car, the better it is to own!".  The GTO satisfies both of those crazy fools.

[JYODER240]

I've put the GTO in snow, with TCS on, you'll still probably just spin out.? Remember, the GTO doesn't have any sort of ASM, either, so you've got more weight and more than twice the power and torque.? As Richard Hammond said the traction control system in the GTO [VXR] is "simple, at best".

Correct me if i'm wrong but doesnt weight help in the snow?

Over your drive wheels.  My dad's S320 is terrible in the snow, and my E320 is fine in it.  Just like most things in life, balance is key.  The GTO has a front weigh bias, the Elise has a rear weight bias.

I was confused, I thought you meant a GTO would be worse in the snow because of its weight :)  

[Raza]

I've put the GTO in snow, with TCS on, you'll still probably just spin out.  Remember, the GTO doesn't have any sort of ASM, either, so you've got more weight and more than twice the power and torque.  As Richard Hammond said the traction control system in the GTO [VXR] is "simple, at best".

Correct me if i'm wrong but doesnt weight help in the snow?

Over your drive wheels.  My dad's S320 is terrible in the snow, and my E320 is fine in it.  Just like most things in life, balance is key.  The GTO has a front weigh bias, the Elise has a rear weight bias.

I was confused, I thought you meant a GTO would be worse in the snow because of its weight :)

Weight and weight bias.  I was trying to say that the E320, a lighter car, was much better in the snow than the S320, a much heavier car.

[Tom]

Sig?  

[mazda6er]

old taillights, but great picture

[Catman]

I like the GTO.  Very low key until the full power of the beast is unleashed.  The Subaru is too "Boy Racer" where the GTO is like "I have nothing to prove, but if you insist!".

[dazzleman]

I may be 20, but I feel like I'm forty.  I always wanted something more grown up.  Since I was 15 I wanted a 528i!  I always wanted a midsize sedan, thinking that I ought to be sensible, and then there's this bit of me that often wins over that is totally mad, totally barmy, and says things like "the less practical the car, the better it is to own!".  The GTO satisfies both of those crazy fools.

Don't feel bad man.  When I was 16, I had a strange affinity for Buick Skylarks (late 1970s vintage).  Don't ask me why; it was for some inane reason such as that I liked the rear light panel.  It reminded me in a way of the 1960s Mercury Cougars.

Of course, I also had a fascination back then with 2-seater Mercedes convertibles, and this was before they became somewhat of a chick car.  In fact, I don't think the concept of chick cars really even existed back then.

It sounds like fun driving all these cars.  I need to retire so I can do some of that.  :P   Good luck with it.