Lease craze

[MX793]

There's a difference between using a credit card in lieu of cash to buy things you can afford and then paying it off in full each month and using a credit card to over-extend yourself and build longer term, interest charged debt.

[GoCougs]

Consumer debt keeps the stores open and drives the economy.

Ergo, the US's $18T national debt.

[Payman]

Ergo, the US's $18T national debt.

...which has nothing to do with consumer debt.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Total personal debt... $16.95 trillion, or $52,698/person (sounds alarming but includes mortgage debt)

Total household assets... $87.92 trillion, or $266,430/person

[AutobahnSHO]

Problem is everything requires a credit card these days. Try upgrading your airline seat or ordering an inflight sammich without one.

Debit card is identical in such situations.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Debit card is identical in such situations.

I want to agree, but my recent experience renting a car disagrees. They would not run my a debit card as a credit card. They required a $200 hold on my debit card because it wasn't a credit card. Pretty stupid.

[Payman]

Debit card is identical in such situations.

Ah, not up here, although you can now get a debit/credit all-in-one card.

[Payman]

I want to agree, but my recent experience renting a car disagrees. They would not run my a debit card as a credit card. They required a $200 hold on my debit card because it wasn't a credit card. Pretty stupid.

Pretty common. Same with hotel check-in.

[GoCougs]

...which has nothing to do with consumer debt.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Total personal debt... $16.95 trillion, or $52,698/person (sounds alarming but includes mortgage debt)

Total household assets... $87.92 trillion, or $266,430/person

Pretty much all consumer debt is debited against the national debt, for without a fiat currency (= national debt) there would be no loose credit to enable such high risk lending as credit cards, car loans, student loans, mortgages, etc.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Pretty common. Same with hotel check-in.

I've used my debit card for hotel reservations and check in, no problem. Just a select few cases where one is punished for havi g a debit card.

[Payman]

Pretty much all consumer debt is debited against the national debt, for without a fiat currency (= national debt) there would be no loose credit to enable such high risk lending as credit cards, car loans, student loans, mortgages, etc.

If that were true, your national debt would actually be over $35 trillion. As per the debt clock linked above, they are separate animals.

[AutobahnSHO]

I want to agree, but my recent experience renting a car disagrees. They would not run my a debit card as a credit card. They required a $200 hold on my debit card because it wasn't a credit card. Pretty stupid.

got to build some reserve bro

Gas stations also have a sticker sometimes that they might "hold" twice the purchase price until the transaction goes through.

Having one creditcard (emergencies) seems like a  good idea, but the trick is to keep the balance uber-low so you can actually use it. None of this "maxxed out" junk. I fell prey to that early in life and just got out of the hole last year at 39yrs old.

[AutobahnSHO]

Pretty much all consumer debt is debited against the national debt, for without a fiat currency (= national debt) there would be no loose credit to enable such high risk lending as credit cards, car loans, student loans, mortgages, etc.

[GoCougs]

If that were true, your national debt would actually be over $35 trillion. As per the debt clock linked above, they are separate animals.

It's not a 1:1 relationship as not all consumer debt is bad/goes bad.

Banks cannot make consumer debt available without fractional lending and federal bailout protection, and both are only possible with a fiat currency, and a fiat currency cannot exist without debt (which is a debit against GDP, since a fiat currency is backed by GDP).

[AutobahnSHO]

It's not a 1:1 relationship as not all consumer debt is bad/goes bad.

Banks cannot make consumer debt available without fractional lending and federal bailout protection, and both are only possible with a fiat currency, and a fiat currency cannot exist without debt (which is a debit against GDP, since a fiat currency is backed by GDP).

banks existed and were prosperous long before fiat currency was put into place

[MX793]

Debit card is identical in such situations.

Debit cards do not offer the same level of security as credit cards.  If somebody gets ahold of your debit card and drains your account, you're SOL.  Somebody gets ahold of your credit card and racks up a bunch of unauthorized charges, you're not held accountable for it.

[BimmerM3]

Ah, not up here, although you can now get a debit/credit all-in-one card.

In the states, most debit cards are either Visa or Mastercard branded. You can process charges as either debit (requires PIN) or credit (no PIN - merchant may make you sign). But you cannot make real credit transactions on these cards - all transactions are immediately credited against your bank account.

[BimmerM3]

Debit cards do not offer the same level of security as credit cards.  If somebody gets ahold of your debit card and drains your account, you're SOL.  Somebody gets ahold of your credit card and racks up a bunch of unauthorized charges, you're not held accountable for it.

Well, assuming your bank doesn't totally suck, you'll eventually get the money back with a debit card. But yeah, you're kinda screwed in the meantime and it's a bigger PITA.

Also, debit card don't offer as much rewards.

[GoCougs]

banks existed and were prosperous long before fiat currency was put into place

Consumer credit by and large didn't exist then - car loans, credit cards, mortgages, HELOCs, personal lines, etc. There were some loans to private individuals but they were rational; ~50% down, ~10%+ interest, 1-5 year term, etc.

[AutobahnSHO]

Consumer credit by and large didn't exist then - car loans, credit cards, mortgages, HELOCs, personal lines, etc. There were some loans to private individuals but they were rational; ~50% down, ~10%+ interest, 1-5 year term, etc.

I don't deny that. Doesn't make my statement wrong.

Fiat currency is not what makes consumer lending possible.

[Tave]

Debit cards do not offer the same level of security as credit cards.  If somebody gets ahold of your debit card and drains your account, you're SOL.  Somebody gets ahold of your credit card and racks up a bunch of unauthorized charges, you're not held accountable for it.

Not exactly. A lot of debit cards offer fraud protection. I had to dispute a couple fraudulent charges last year and the process was fairly painless. The difference is with a debit card, the money comes out of your account immediately and you have to go through the process before it's reimbursed (although my bank extended me provisional credit while I waited for them to make a final decision), whereas with a credit card you can dispute any suspect activity on the front end.

[GoCougs]

I don't deny that. Doesn't make my statement wrong.

Fiat currency is not what makes consumer lending possible.

Yes it does and yes it does.

[AutobahnSHO]

Ok so the Honda in Aiken has "way too many CRVs" and they ARE leasing 2wd CRVs for 24month/24k miles for $88/month only $88 down.
CRAZY!!!

[Eye of the Tiger]

Ok so the Honda in Aiken has "way too many CRVs" and they ARE leasing 2wd CRVs for 24month/24k miles for $88/month only $88 down.
CRAZY!!!

wut

[AutobahnSHO]

wut

I know, right?!  I can't find anything on their website, it was a radio commercial.

[Raza]

I just turned 43 and in effect am "retired." I probably won't stay that way but there's a lot more to life than work - expecting to work till you can't work any more sounds miserable.

I think the word for that is "unemployed". 

[12,000 RPM]

Ok so the Honda in Aiken has "way too many CRVs" and they ARE leasing 2wd CRVs for 24month/24k miles for $88/month only $88 down.
CRAZY!!!

They don't allot any mileage to you for that though

[Payman]

They don't allot any mileage to you for that though

24k miles. That MUST be $88/bi-weekly though.

[12,000 RPM]

24k miles. That MUST be $88/bi-weekly though.

A year? Even if it is biweekly that's a smoking deal

[BimmerM3]

A year? Even if it is biweekly that's a smoking deal

I'm sure he meant over the life of the lease. 12k/year.

[MrH]

Yeah, I don't believe this deal.  I'll go lease a CRV for $88/month for 12k miles/year.

The best lease deal I've heard: http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1097317_100-plus-racers-just-bought-fiat-500e-electric-cars

If they had these in Ohio, I'd have one for sure at those rates.