EPA Going after VW...

[MX793]

Not at all, if it's a N/A gasoline engine and about even if it's not.

Diesels don't need to be turbocharged or supercharged (though they work much better if they are).  No ignition.  No throttle.  They require no electricity at all to run.  Fuel injection can be handled completely mechanically with the injectors driven off of the camshaft.

[GoCougs]

Diesels don't need to be turbocharged or supercharged (though they work much better if they are).  No ignition.  No throttle.  They require no electricity at all to run.  Fuel injection can be handled completely mechanically with the injectors driven off of the camshaft.

But of course no diesels are like that today - turbo + related stuff, more complicated fuel system (ultra high fuel pressure and more complicated/expensive injectors) and urea treatment.

[AutobahnSHO]

Nether are gasoline engines...

[MX793]

But of course no diesels are like that today - turbo + related stuff, more complicated fuel system (ultra high fuel pressure and more complicated/expensive injectors) and urea treatment.

Um, take a look at the typical diesel-powered refrigeration unit made by Carrier or similar.  They're pretty dirt simple, N/A diesel engines.  Kubota makes some for small tractors and generator sets and the like as well.

[MexicoCityM3]

Doesn't look good. VW may take a huge hit from this.

[Payman]

It's crazy a car company would do this. The ramifications from getting caught are going to be pretty severe. Aside from a massive fine, there's surely going to be a class-action suit from the half-million owners.

[AutobahnSHO]

It's crazy a car company would do this. The ramifications from getting caught are going to be pretty severe. Aside from a massive fine, there's surely going to be a class-action suit from the half-million owners.

+1

[2o6]

I wonder if they're doing the same thing for Euro 6, as well

[MX793]

I wonder if they're doing the same thing for Euro 6, as well

Do the latest Euro requirements have the same NOx limits as the US?  In the past, the EPA has been more stringent about NOx and particulates than Euro regs, which focused more on carbon emissions.

[Soup DeVille]

Um, take a look at the typical diesel-powered refrigeration unit made by Carrier or similar.  They're pretty dirt simple, N/A diesel engines.  Kubota makes some for small tractors and generator sets and the like as well.

Not exactly daily drivers though, are they?

[MX793]

Not exactly daily drivers though, are they?

Didn't specify "in cars or trucks".  They don't really make any "simple" gas engines for cars anymore, either.

[12,000 RPM]

It's crazy a car company would do this. The ramifications from getting caught are going to be pretty severe. Aside from a massive fine, there's surely going to be a class-action suit from the half-million owners.

You forget how deep German car owners Stockholm syndrome goes. This has not at all affected my desire for a new GTI

[Payman]

You forget how deep German car owners Stockholm syndrome goes. This has not at all affected my desire for a new GTI

The product is still great... the problem is crippling EPA regulations, and the damage they can do when you cross them.

[12,000 RPM]

I'd rather "crippling" regulations 99% of companies manage to meet without issue than the air quality of a third world country. That shit is going to be a big piece of china's downfall

[GoCougs]

Um, take a look at the typical diesel-powered refrigeration unit made by Carrier or similar.  They're pretty dirt simple, N/A diesel engines.  Kubota makes some for small tractors and generator sets and the like as well.

C'mon, man.

[GoCougs]

I'd rather "crippling" regulations 99% of companies manage to meet without issue than the air quality of a third world country. That shit is going to be a big piece of china's downfall

It's worked wonders in Europe, esp. Paris:

[Payman]

I'd rather "crippling" regulations 99% of companies manage to meet without issue than the air quality of a third world country. That shit is going to be a big piece of china's downfall

Don't get me wrong... the EPA has mostly been a success and I'm thankful it exists. But WRT vehicle emissions I think they've gotten too restrictive and controlling.

[Galaxy]

Don't get me wrong... the EPA has mostly been a success and I'm thankful it exists. But WRT vehicle emissions I think they've gotten too restrictive and controlling.

VW did not miss emissions by .02% they missed by 1000 -4000%, while at the same time they ran commercials like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVPyHrPZbVM&feature=youtu.be

If in your commercial someone gets arrested for not composting, what is the punishment for cheating at emissions testing? 

[12,000 RPM]

It's worked wonders in Europe, esp. Paris:

Lol right because every developed country with emissions standards has deadly smog

Come on bro even you aren't this obtuse

[AutobahnSHO]

It's worked wonders in Europe, esp. Paris:

Lol I've seen worse before and after pictures in villages with no cars, could just be all the old ladies out sweeping dust.

[Payman]

VW did not miss emissions by .02% they missed by 1000 -4000%, while at the same time they ran commercials like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVPyHrPZbVM&feature=youtu.be

If in your commercial someone gets arrested for not composting, what is the punishment for cheating at emissions testing? 

I can't even... that sounds like an old Rambler running on leaded gas. You still can't see anything coming from a TDi tailpipe on the road. 

[MX793]

I can't even... that sounds like an old Rambler running on leaded gas. You still can't see anything coming from a TDi tailpipe on the road. 

They reportedly failed NOx (which has been a problem for diesels in the US since diesels emit more NOx than petrol engines), not particulates or hydrocarbons.  You wouldn't be able to see NOx.

[Payman]

Oh Jesus, this is going to be catastrophic...


Following the government investigation of Volkswagen's diesel emissions, The Detroit News reports the automaker ordered its U.S. dealerships to halt sales of new 2016 and remaining 2015 TDI car models with 2.0-liter diesel engines.

According to the Environmental Protection Agency and California Air Resources Board, VW dodged federal emissions requirements for some 482,000 of its diesel cars — including the Passat, Jetta, Golf, Beetle, SportWagens and Audi A3 — manufactured from 2009 to 2015. The models contain a "defeat device" which exists to detect when the car is under testing conditions, allowing for it to activate the full emissions-control systems only in those circumstances.

In other words, environmental officials say that the street cars are emitting between 10 and 40 times the amount of allowable nitrogen oxide pollution, which is not only illegal but harmful to both the environment and public.

The EPA is taking action on 2016 diesel models. Christopher Grundler, director of the EPA Office of Transportation of Air Quality, said that the government will not grant VW a "certificate of conformity" to sell the 2016 models with 2.0-liter diesel engines, meaning they cannot be sold.

VW dealers have been waiting for the 2016 models to replenish showrooms. Most U.S. VW dealers don't have any remaining 2015 diesel cars to sell.

VW is barred from selling 2016 model vehicles with the 2.0 liter diesel engine until "they get answers to the questions of how these vehicles are being operated. Volkswagen couldn't explain why we're getting these excess emissions," Grundler said.
Meanwhile, whatever 2015 models remain on lots have also been ordered not to be sold. As Automotive News notes, four-cylinder TDI models account for 20 to 25 percent of VW's U.S. sales, so this is going to hurt.

In addition, VW has ordered an outside investigation to find out what happened and "reverse the damage this has caused," CEO Martin Winterkorn said in an apologetic statement.

According to the EPA, the agency is now checking to see if other automakers are bypassing the laws on diesel engines as well.

While no official recall is underway just yet, the News reports:

EPA said VW violated federal law and, in theory, could face fines of up to $18 billion — $37,500 per vehicle — as well as criminal prosecution. Both agencies issued notices of non-compliance to VW Friday, a step necessary before ordering a recall.
The EPA will not take action to stop VW owners from driving their personal cars until a solution is made available, but VW did remove its "clean diesel" advertisements from YouTube and television.

[Eye of the Tiger]

EPA is so greedy. What would they do with $18billion? Pay lobbyists?

[MexicoCityM3]

By the way the same guys that investigated this also tested a diesel X5. It passed emissions on real world driving unlike the vee dubs.

[GoCougs]

EPA is one of the worse federal agencies - from pushing power into the hands of ME dictators to killing jobs to stifling innovation to destroying wealth to harming the environment. It's awful and WtP should never have put up with it.

I hate diesels of course but this *almost* makes me want to go buy a VW TDi.

[280Z Turbo]

The winner is the EPA. The loser is the consumer.

[12,000 RPM]

By the way the same guys that investigated this also tested a diesel X5. It passed emissions on real world driving unlike the vee dubs.

Lol I salute your fanboism 

[MrH]

Lol yeah. All I can think of, "can I get a diesel Jetta wagon for pennies on the dollar and flash it?!"

Mother Nature hates me for sure.

[2o6]

By the way the same guys that investigated this also tested a diesel X5. It passed emissions on real world driving unlike the vee dubs.

BMW Diesels use Urea.