MAZDA SkyActiv-R Sportscar... New RX-7?

[Payman]

I dunno, wasn't the RX-7 like $50k back in the '90's? I'd realistically expect this thing to be at least $50k.

So was the 300ZX and Supra... all were optimistically overpriced and the entire segment died by the mid-90s as a result. The resurrection began with the 350Z being reborn in the early 00s with a $15K lower starting point.

[12,000 RPM]

Issues with implementing on a Wankel:
1. No valves normally in the design to seal off the rotor chamber
2. Rotaries rely on oil mixed with incoming fuel for lubricating the apex seals.  If you shut off the rotor, where does the lubrication come from?

O boy. Things are coming into focus now. I was going to say, OK, just collect the oil, but I'm guessing it goes right out the tailpipe.... hence the high oil consumption and emissions. Maybe they have gone to roller bearings for apex seals? IDK man.

So was the 300ZX and Supra... all were optimistically overpriced and the entire segment died by the mid-90s as a result. The resurrection began with the 350Z being reborn in the early 00s with a $15K lower starting point.

They weren't that overpriced when they came out. What sent their prices into orbit was the crash of the yen. Same thing happened in Germany. That is why Japanese and German cars got so decontented and under-engineered during the late 90s. These cars were brought on by bubbles. ~83-95 was a mega anomaly in the auto world... we probably got about 20-30 years worth of development over that period.

In any case, I too see this thing being in the high 40s low 50s. Mid to high 30s is ambitious considering the hella conventional Miata hits the low 30s, with a Mazda 3 base engine and like no sound insulation lol. They will probably aim just enough to cover some of its R&D, which will mean pricing will be ambitious enough to be profitable at low volume.

[Payman]

O boy. Things are coming into focus now. I was going to say, OK, just collect the oil, but I'm guessing it goes right out the tailpipe.... hence the high oil consumption and emissions. Maybe they have gone to roller bearings for apex seals? IDK man.
They weren't that overpriced when they came out. What sent their prices into orbit was the crash of the yen. Same thing happened in Germany. That is why Japanese and German cars got so decontented and under-engineered during the late 90s. These cars were brought on by bubbles. ~83-95 was a mega anomaly in the auto world... we probably got about 20-30 years worth of development over that period.

In any case, I too see this thing being in the high 40s low 50s. Mid to high 30s is ambitious considering the hella conventional Miata hits the low 30s, with a Mazda 3 base engine and like no sound insulation lol. They will probably aim just enough to cover some of its R&D, which will mean pricing will be ambitious enough to be profitable at low volume.

Good points.

[Cookie Monster]

So was the 300ZX and Supra... all were optimistically overpriced and the entire segment died by the mid-90s as a result. The resurrection began with the 350Z being reborn in the early 00s with a $15K lower starting point.

Except that the 350Z came out 7 years after the 300ZX was discontinued in the US ('96-'03), so not a huge amount of inflation in that time period. $50k in '96 is like $75k today, so even if this new RX is $50k it's still $25k cheaper than an equivalent FD RX-7.

Granted, the 350/370Z was/is very cheap. 370's start at $30k, but that uses an engine shared with a ton of different cars. This thing is going to have a bespoke (at least for now) engine, and as Sporty said, a Miata hits $33-35k easily. No way they're not pricing this at least $10k more, more like $15k realistically.

[MX793]

O boy. Things are coming into focus now. I was going to say, OK, just collect the oil, but I'm guessing it goes right out the tailpipe.... hence the high oil consumption and emissions. Maybe they have gone to roller bearings for apex seals? IDK man.

Apex seals are the piston rings in a rotary engine.  Not sure how you use roller bearings there.

And yes, the lubrication oil for the seals is consumed and blown out the tailpipe.  Continuing to inject oil into a deactivated rotor risks buildup and potential sparkplug fouling if left running that way too long.

[12,000 RPM]

Apex seals are the piston rings in a rotary engine.  Not sure how you use roller bearings there.

And yes, the lubrication oil for the seals is consumed and blown out the tailpipe.  Continuing to inject oil into a deactivated rotor risks buildup and potential sparkplug fouling if left running that way too long.

I mean they do DoD in piston engines and those need oil all the time too.

Another idea, which is the nuclear option, would be to couple and decouple rotors with clutches and dogteeth. Have 2 or 3 rotors and take them completely on/offline as needed. No pumping losses or lubrication issues and the dogteeth could be arranged so it would only mesh 1 way. Pretty crazy idea but then so is the rotary engine.

[Cookie Monster]

I mean they do DoD in piston engines and those need oil all the time too.

Another idea, which is the nuclear option, would be to couple and decouple rotors with clutches and dogteeth. Have 2 or 3 rotors and take them completely on/offline as needed. No pumping losses or lubrication issues and the dogteeth could be arranged so it would only mesh 1 way. Pretty crazy idea but then so is the rotary engine.

Piston engines don't receive their oil lubrication through the fuel...

[MX793]

Piston engines get oil from the bottom end which is dragged up into the cylinder by the piston (2-strokes excluded).

[12,000 RPM]

So rotaries are basically 2 strokes? Yea this is not happening

[MX793]

So rotaries are basically 2 strokes? Yea this is not happening

While technically a "4 stroke" cycle, they have a number of commonalities with 2-strokes.

[Cookie Monster]

So rotaries are basically 2 strokes? Yea this is not happening

Lol so you were suggesting that they do all this crazy stuff like displacement on demand and dog-teeth engaged rotors without knowing how a rotary works?

[MrH]

Lol, I swear sporty. Sometimes I really question if you've got an engineering degree and actually like cars

[Cookie Monster]

STFU GUYS IT'S STARTED

[MX793]

Lol so you were suggesting that they do all this crazy stuff like displacement on demand and dog-teeth engaged rotors without knowing how a rotary works?

Lol, I swear sporty. Sometimes I really question if you've got an engineering degree and actually like cars

Wow, harsh crowd...

[Cookie Monster]

Good job Mazda.

[MX793]

Greenhouse seems too small for the car.  Has Camaro-esque gunslit windows.  Otherwise, it kind of reminds me of an AMG GT-S.

[Cookie Monster]

Greenhouse seems too small for the car.  Has Camaro-esque gunslit windows.  Otherwise, it kind of reminds me of an AMG GT-S.

Yeah, the wheels are giant and the windows are too small, but I'm hoping those will be fixed for production. I'm not a huge fan of the headlights but I think those will be toned down a bit for production as well. I love the rest of the car though. I'm just hoping Mazda doesn't drop the ball on the weight or doesn't just offer it with a DCT or some shit.

[MX793]

Yeah, the wheels are giant and the windows are too small, but I'm hoping those will be fixed for production. I'm not a huge fan of the headlights but I think those will be toned down a bit for production as well. I love the rest of the car though. I'm just hoping Mazda doesn't drop the ball on the weight or doesn't just offer it with a DCT or some shit.

They'll do one better and only offer it in Japan and Europe in very limited quantities.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Am i missing some updated info that you guys are looking at?

[MX793]

Am i missing some updated info that you guys are looking at?

Google "RX-Vision" or go to any of the major auto mag websites.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Ya, just checked it out. Looks good to me, toned down a bit for production and I think it will look good. Might have to start setting aside a few bucks for a down payment fund.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Thats a lot of room between the front wheels and cowl, lots of room

You could probably fit a 4 rotor in there.......dare to dream.

[12,000 RPM]

Wow, harsh crowd...

They are telling on themselves more than anything. Light work.

Unless Mazda has figured out how to keep the rotors lubricated without consuming the oil there is just no way this thing will work.

[Eye of the Tiger]

NSX is better

[Raza]

Wow, you guys are really getting your hopes up for this.  I'd be more cautious......

[Cookie Monster]

They are telling on themselves more than anything. Light work.

Unless Mazda has figured out how to keep the rotors lubricated without consuming the oil there is just no way this thing will work.

Why, because we call you out on your improbable and laughable ideas?

Gee, I wonder why I never venture into the politics threads...

[MX793]

They are telling on themselves more than anything. Light work.

Unless Mazda has figured out how to keep the rotors lubricated without consuming the oil there is just no way this thing will work.

Why does it have to have DoD?  Did Mazda say it would?

[12,000 RPM]

Why does it have to have DoD?  Did Mazda say it would?

It doesn't have to have DoD. However I can't imagine oil consumption on the level of a 2 stroke passing any modern emissions standards.

Why, because we call you out on your improbable and laughable ideas?

Gee, I wonder why I never venture into the politics threads...

You guys are just dogpiling and playing stupid. What have I suggested that is so improbable? And you don't venture into politics because you are too scared.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Just add more rotors and more oil. Apex seals aren't much of a problem, anymore. Need to add more emissions control crap.

[Payman]

I was hoping for something closer to production. Still, it's exciting that the rotary sportscar from Mazda is alive and well.