Will the four-door sedan go the way of the dinosaur?

[2o6]

Jesus, when is the last time you were in one. Look at how much taller the doors are, and lifting stuff into the backseat esp. the middle such as for a baby seat is more difficult (esp. for women).

Automakers are putting more $$$ into CUVs (CR-V, Escape, Rav4, etc., were once penalty boxes) but there is still a notable gap - sedans are better vehicles than CUVs in the ways consumers materially need them to be, ergo, they are still buying WAY more of them than CUVs.

No they're not

[AutobahnSHO]

Lololol @ this thread

[MrH]

I really don't like the sedan body style much either. It's so much less usable than a hatchback or SUV

[12,000 RPM]

Lol heavier doors.

[280Z Turbo]

I really don't like the sedan body style much either. It's so much less usable than a hatchback or SUV

Trunks are kind of a waste of space

[Rupert]

Is this now a debate about the merits of (much poorer selling) CUVs? Because the premise that they're taking over has been soundly deflated.

[giant_mtb]

How long ago was it when CUVs really became a thing?  Can't be much more than like five years?  Depending on your definition of CUV, I guess.

[280Z Turbo]

How long ago was it when CUVs really became a thing?  Can't be much more than like five years?  Depending on your definition of CUV, I guess.

1994 RAV4? 2001 Escape? 2010 Equinox?

[MX793]

1994 RAV4? 2001 Escape? 2010 Equinox?

1980 AMC Eagle?

The marketing term "CUV" is less than 10 years old, but that style of vehicle has been around a while.  The modern CUV segment really started in the mid to late 90s with the Subaru Outbacks, Forester, Rav4, CR-V, and Lexus RX and then really started taking off in the early 2000s as manufacturers started pumping out similar vehicles (Escape, MDX, Pilot, Pacifica, Highlander, Aztek/Rendezvous, Vue, Equinox...) in response to consumer demand.

[SVT666]

LOL @ Cougs

[Rupert]

Cougs and sporty are both in fine form ITT. Opposite angles, equally silly IMO. CUVs are not at all taking over the market; CUVs do indeed have some advantages in some areas, otherwise they would not have become so popular in the last decade.

[Soup DeVille]

Trunks are kind of a waste of space

Trunks are more secure, and keep your stuff out of sight better than in the back of an SUV. They can be preferable for that reason alone. In general, they also open with fewer rear clearance issues, and that can be a factor in some cases.

Also, as a bit of an aside, legally, you are on better ground in many states keeping your guns in a locked trunk than keeping them in a box in the cargo area.

[GoCougs]

Cougs and sporty are both in fine form ITT. Opposite angles, equally silly IMO. CUVs are not at all taking over the market; CUVs do indeed have some advantages in some areas, otherwise they would not have become so popular in the last decade.

Please do not use the word "silly" - it's the second worst word in the English language behind "creepy."

Also, CUVs generally have higher maintenance costs (bigger tires, AWD service).

[Rupert]

I was hardly being mendacious.

[AutobahnSHO]

Trunks are more secure, and keep your stuff out of sight better than in the back of an SUV. They can be preferable for that reason alone. In general, they also open with fewer rear clearance issues, and that can be a factor in some cases.

Also, as a bit of an aside, legally, you are on better ground in many states keeping your guns in a locked trunk than keeping them in a box in the cargo area.

Which is silly because most cars can open the trunk from a button in the cabin. Besides being able to climb over the seats without getting out of the car, wagon is no worse- most come with or have cheap covers available.

[AutobahnSHO]

Please do not use the word "silly" - it's the second worst word in the English language behind "creepy."

Also, CUVs generally have higher maintenance costs (bigger tires, AWD service).

They were talking fwd, and your silly statement about words is creepy.

[MX793]

Trunks are more secure, and keep your stuff out of sight better than in the back of an SUV. They can be preferable for that reason alone. In general, they also open with fewer rear clearance issues, and that can be a factor in some cases.

Also, as a bit of an aside, legally, you are on better ground in many states keeping your guns in a locked trunk than keeping them in a box in the cargo area.

Trunks are better for cabin noise as well.

[12,000 RPM]

My wife's hatch and mom's (16 year old) CUV come with tonneau covers.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Trunks are better for cabin noise as well.

Especially if the bodies aren't quite dead.

[ifcar]

Trunks are more secure, and keep your stuff out of sight better than in the back of an SUV. They can be preferable for that reason alone. In general, they also open with fewer rear clearance issues, and that can be a factor in some cases.

On the flip side, a sedan generally going to be longer than an SUV with equivalent space, unless it was a height clearance issue you meant.

[Raza]

This is true; but the elderly are not buying enough cars to make for large change in car buying habits.

You asked a question, I gave you an answer.

[Raza]

U don't get to decide what the right direction is

Higher seating position = better forward visibility. This is not really up for debate. Anecdotally I see this every time I hop on the motorcycle, and empirically I've seen this in headlight performance and other places. Bigger/heavier has nothing to do with it really- a FWD CR-V probably weighs the same as an Accord with the same engine and equipment. But it does have fatter tires and more suspension travel, which definitely do equate to better ride quality. Nobody buying a CUV cares about road holding or handling, that is a red herring and projection of enthusiast values onto a non-enthusiast market. Etc. etc.

If wagons were so great the US would not have moved away from them in the mainstream ~18 years ago. That is when Honda and Toyota dumped their last wagons (Accord/Camry) and came out with their CUVs.

Image killed the wagon more than anything else; it's easy to sell people on things. 

[Raza]

I really don't like the sedan body style much either. It's so much less usable than a hatchback or SUV

[Raza]

How long ago was it when CUVs really became a thing?  Can't be much more than like five years?  Depending on your definition of CUV, I guess.

Started a long time ago.  10-15 years, at least.  Lexus RX300 was the one that ruled the roost where I lived. 

[Raza]

Which is silly because most cars can open the trunk from a button in the cabin. Besides being able to climb over the seats without getting out of the car, wagon is no worse- most come with or have cheap covers available.

One time, when the four of us were stuck in my brother's S4 in a traffic jam, my friend was able to turn around, drop the rear seats, and crawl into the trunk to get my BlackBerry for me. 

[Soup DeVille]

Image killed the wagon more than anything else; it's easy to sell people on things. 

This is, as you might imagine, a recurring theme amongst other members of the station wagon club.

One thing that a lot of people don't realize is that station wagons were always a bit of a hodgepodge arrangement; a way to squeeze more seating and cargo space out of a standard sedan chassis. As the industry moved away from BOF passenger cars, and went to more flexible manufacturing systems, it became more feasible and made more sense to have the family people mover vehicles on their own platform.

The mileage on the early minivans (which were really what killed he wagons) was also significantly better; but, it's my opinion that style was more of a driver than anything else. The station wagon was more or less just the despised family car, much the same way the minivan is thought of today.

That being said, wagons do provide some distinct advantages.

[12,000 RPM]

Yes.... anyone who thinks wagons were ever viewed as cool in the mainstream has a short memory.



Wagon enthusiasm has always been very fringe, starting with those college professor diesel Benz wagons of the 70s.

[2o6]

I, for one, love my minivan-style tall hatchback.

[Raza]

Yes.... anyone who thinks wagons were ever viewed as cool in the mainstream has a short memory.



Wagon enthusiasm has always been very fringe, starting with those college professor diesel Benz wagons of the 70s.

No, I never thought they were considered cool (and they still aren't).  But I think that contributed to their demise.  Let's face it, minivans are horrible.  They're horrendous to drive, look terrible, and have the worst image.  But their practicality over a wagon or sedan is hard to argue with; they pack cupholders at 2-3:1 ratio to seats.  SUVs and eventually cars that looked like SUVs offered slightly more practicality than wagons (with some costs as well; bad gas mileage, pre-CUV a lack of ride comfort, they weren't all that easy to drive compared to sedans and wagons), but it gave people a cool, adventurous image that wagons and minivans were never able to impart.  SUVs of yore, like early Range Rovers, had an honest nobility about them, and that image extended to cars that just looked like those cool SUVs.  Hell, I started to like SUVs when I saw Princess Diana's Range Rover on Top Gear.  It had such an air about it, I couldn't help but imagine myself as a rugged outdoorsman--and we both know I am absolutely not that. 

Wagons have always been a bit dorky; even cool wagons are only cool to enthusiasts.  To us, this is the ultimate in family cool, a 550+ horsepower wagon that can obliterate anything short of supercars and take the whole family to a weekend ski trip. 



To everyone else, it may as well be the family truckster. 

[Byteme]

U don't get to decide what the right direction is

{snip crap}


If wagons were so great the US would not have moved away from them in the mainstream ~18 years ago. That is when Honda and Toyota dumped their last wagons (Accord/Camry) and came out with their CUVs.

I'm entitled to my opinion, same as you are, Bub.

Wagons carried a stigma is one major reason; a lot of it is perception of the "active lifestyle" manufacturers of CUVs and SUVs evoke through their advertising.  Why would a manufacturer sell a wagon when they can sell  an SUV or a CUV with much higher profit margins.