How much is too much (and are drivers become too reliant on TCS/ESC/etc)?

[565]

Cars I have spun:  1987 supra turbo.  1998 nissan pathfinder

Cars that I have not spun but have had ESC kick in and save my ass:  c5 z06,  g37xS 


Based on my personal experience the newer cars with ESC have been safer for me.

Also unfortunately I don't think it's because I've matured as a driver (if anything I drive worse now than I ever have)

[shp4man]

Truck only has rear ABS because, well, truck. It's LOL slow, one of the rears has to squeal before it kicks in. 15 year old electronics. 

[CaminoRacer]

True. In fact, I think I'm going to do a couple events this year with our Infiniti G37.

[12,000 RPM]

I spun the Z with ESC on twice

Re: no racetracks nearby

This will sound stupid, but w/e. A good race sim setup can really cure that speed itch. I don't know if it's made me a safer driver... probably not. But catching slides, managing traction, plotting lines through curves.... it all translates. I still enjoy the hell out of Forza 4 with my wheel... I've updated the hell out of my cockpit since this photo:



We can dream and save and all that but it's pretty much a zero percent chance we will be able to beat on a new GT3 at a bunch of tracks around the world. Even those Xtreme Xperience deals are ehhhh. This definitely scratches the itch. Especially with online racing.

[SVT666]

Uhhhhhh no.  It does not get the adrenaline going like a real car.

[Eye of the Tiger]

boring

[12,000 RPM]

Uhhhhhh no.  It does not get the adrenaline going like a real car.

It also costs a lot less and won't kill you. Everything has positives and negatives

[MX793]

Unless you're in a full-motion simulator rig, and even those aren't quite as good as the real deal, video games don't properly replicate the driving experience well enough to really teach what a car feels like at the limit.  You can learn a bit about how to steer into a slide to correct oversteer, but the experience is devoid of much of the seat-of-the-pants feeling that is essential to really understanding what the car is doing.  Even with a force-feedback wheel, you don't have the G-forces on the body or the sensations you get when the drive wheels are just starting to slip under power or when the car is reaching the point where it's starting to slide, into either understeer or oversteer, when cornering.  Recovering from a violent fishtail in a game is nowhere near like doing the same when you're actually in the car and getting tossed left and right.

[CaminoRacer]

It also costs a lot less and won't kill you. Everything has positives and negatives

Take the Civic to a local SCCA autox bruh. $50 for a day of fun. Like $35 if you get a yearly membership

[Payman]

The self preservation instinct doesn't kick in playing a video game.

[Cookie Monster]

The self preservation instinct doesn't kick in playing a video game.

It doesn't really kick in on the track either when you're chasing time.

[MrH]

I spun the Z with ESC on twice

Re: no racetracks nearby

This will sound stupid, but w/e. A good race sim setup can really cure that speed itch. I don't know if it's made me a safer driver... probably not. But catching slides, managing traction, plotting lines through curves.... it all translates. I still enjoy the hell out of Forza 4 with my wheel... I've updated the hell out of my cockpit since this photo:



We can dream and save and all that but it's pretty much a zero percent chance we will be able to beat on a new GT3 at a bunch of tracks around the world. Even those Xtreme Xperience deals are ehhhh. This definitely scratches the itch. Especially with online racing.

I've got a Logitech g25 + gran turismo + car seat. It's fun, but nowhere near the same. Especially a convertible.

I drove a full motion simulator. They had one at the Detroit auto show a few years ago. You drove a CTS DTM car around a track and they had a ranking board. The guy that drove for the DTM series was there to help guide you through it.

That simulator was wild. You get hard on the brakes, and it completely dumped you forward.

[12,000 RPM]

A full simulator rig would be pretty sweet. Wouldn't even need to register the full g forces.

Gran Turismo's sound and graphics suck balls compared to Forza. I can see how it would get old......

I'm not saying a racing sim can replace the real thing. But I can't go do a track day after work. And a lot of the stuff translates (see: Gran Turismo Academy). If any of you guys find yourselves in Charlotte you are more than free to try my rig.

[Eye of the Tiger]

If any of you guys find yourselves in Columbia, you are free to come street racing with me.

[CaminoRacer]

If any of you guys find yourselves in Columbia, you are free to come street racing with me.

Buy Van again and everyone can go street creeping with you.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Buy Van again and everyone can go street creeping with you.

Dude, I got it covered.
I can fit a mattress in Mighty Max, and Element's seats all fold into a bed.

[MX793]

A full simulator rig would be pretty sweet. Wouldn't even need to register the full g forces.

Gran Turismo's sound and graphics suck balls compared to Forza. I can see how it would get old......

I'm not saying a racing sim can replace the real thing. But I can't go do a track day after work. And a lot of the stuff translates (see: Gran Turismo Academy). If any of you guys find yourselves in Charlotte you are more than free to try my rig.

Most, if not all, of the GT Academy winners have past high performance driving or amateur level racing experience.

[12,000 RPM]

Most, if not all, of the GT Academy winners have past high performance driving or amateur level racing experience.

Only one I know by name is Jann Mardenborough who never had any real life racing experience.... he has had a few podiums and wins in pro racing

[MX793]

Only one I know by name is Jann Mardenborough who never had any real life racing experience.... he has had a few podiums and wins in pro racing

He is listed as being an exception amongst the list of past winners.  And "not seriously racing" doesn't mean he had zero high performance driving experience.  Despite my years of autocross, I wouldn't claim that I'd ever had any serious racing experience.  The guy may have been a regular at the local gokart track but never entered any real organized competition.

[VTEC_Inside]

Our pathetic excuse for driver education is the problem. Driving is treated more like a constitutional right than it is the responsibility to competently operate a two-ton death machine.

Amen...

[12,000 RPM]

He is listed as being an exception amongst the list of past winners.  And "not seriously racing" doesn't mean he had zero high performance driving experience.  Despite my years of autocross, I wouldn't claim that I'd ever had any serious racing experience.  The guy may have been a regular at the local gokart track but never entered any real organized competition.

OK you are right.

Point still stands though, racing sims are fun. I think there are good legitimate reasons why track days and real racing are in decline, while they are on the uptick.

[afty]

I've come very close to spinning my G35 in the wet. I wasn't driving particularly aggressively, just making a left turn on an off camber road. RWD is just less forgiving, and most people are not used to it.

[giant_mtb]

I've come very close to spinning my G35 in the wet. I wasn't driving particularly aggressively, just making a left turn on an off camber road. RWD is just less forgiving, and most people are not used to it.

I got pretty stuck in a snow bank once in a similar situation. RWD (4WD was broken), left turn, camber to the outside of the corner, a touch too much gas...yup.

[MrH]

OK you are right.

Point still stands though, racing sims are fun. I think there are good legitimate reasons why track days and real racing are in decline, while they are on the uptick.

Track days are just brutal on your car and expensive. I'd rather kart for pennies on the dollar in comparison. I think I'd rather just have a fun street car I can drive when it's nice out.

[12,000 RPM]

Karting is good news too. Def gonna do more of that this year.

[MrH]

Karting is good news too. Def gonna do more of that this year.

You got a place near you? We've got an awesome place near my work. Run by a bunch of cool car guys (owner actually scrapped money together, bought a car, and raced it competitively at Laguna Seca, all on his own dime. He's trying to get sponsored. It was all in road and track).

We've got endurance races and special events all the time. They built a second track, and combine them once a week for huge ass, 1 minute laps. It's great fun per dollar. Then you get in your car with non boiled brakes and drive home.

[12,000 RPM]

There is a place about 30 minutes from my house. I feel really guilty for not going more. Once it warms up I will get more active. It's a nice track and there is a lot of competition there. I think I wrote a review here a while back. I enjoyed it, but I got really motion sick. I will have to bring ginger pills next time.

[CaminoRacer]

You got a place near you? We've got an awesome place near my work. Run by a bunch of cool car guys (owner actually scrapped money together, bought a car, and raced it competitively at Laguna Seca, all on his own dime. He's trying to get sponsored. It was all in road and track).

We've got endurance races and special events all the time. They built a second track, and combine them once a week for huge ass, 1 minute laps. It's great fun per dollar. Then you get in your car with non boiled brakes and drive home.

Whoa I haven't been since they added the second track. Need to go ASAP lol.

[MrH]

Whoa I haven't been since they added the second track. Need to go ASAP lol.

They knocked down a wall, added an entire second track, and then connect the two on some days. It's wild and soooooo much better than before. I was bored with the old layout. The double track is so much more difficult.

[CaminoRacer]

The tracks here in Utah do that. The one up in SLC has huge straights on the combined track. Has me wanting for more power.