Camaro ZL1

[FlatBlackCaddy]

The Camaro is at least LOSING weight! Not gaining like the M4 and Mustang.

True, but it really had no place to go but down. I wonder if everyone rationalizing the weight would have defended a 4200 lb curb weight.

[68_427]

True, but it really had no place to go but down. I wonder if everyone rationalizing the weight would have defended a 4200 lb curb weight.

The CTS-V does fine

[68_427]

http://youtu.be/wLDSlYvprTM

Still seems to lag behind DCT in response times on downshifts but those upshifts look money.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

The Super Charger whine is wicked! Porsche would charge 170K for a car like that!

[Raza]

I'll take the lighter car that doesn't need all those nanny aids to compensate for weight.

Lol.  In six weeks cars will drive themselves anyway.  Bring on the behemoths.  I want to get to work faster while texting and making coffee and watching Keeping up with the Kardashians.

[CaminoRacer]

When the Mustang and Camaro were slower but still have fun sounding V8s and a fun driving experience, people complained and wanted them to be faster. Now they're hella fast and people complain and want them to be more "fun".

[Payman]

When the Mustang and Camaro were slower but still have fun sounding V8s and a fun driving experience, people complained and wanted them to be faster. Now they're hella fast and people complain and want them to be more "fun".

I like my sportscars light. But I'm not bothered by the weight of these cars because they aren't sportscars. My pick is still a Scat Pack Challenger, and that thing weighs some 4100 lbs. They're really cruisers that happen to go fast. I'm sure this Camaro can tear up a track just fine, but my enthusiasm for pony cars fade fast beyond the $45,000 mark.

[12,000 RPM]

Not saying anyone is stupid, just implicitly pointing out the fact that there is this complaining but no material information or data to back it up.

People need information & data to back up their personal preferences for lighter cars?

[12,000 RPM]

Lol.  In six weeks cars will drive themselves anyway.  Bring on the behemoths.  I want to get to work faster while texting and making coffee and watching Keeping up with the Kardashians.

[Payman]

People need information & data to back up their personal preferences for lighter cars?

Asian chicks make me horny, but I'm not posting a pic of my aroused dick.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Still seems to lag behind DCT in response times on downshifts but those upshifts look money.

Mercedes, and others, have tried the whole "faster than a DCT" BS with regards to non DCT automatics. It's all marketing BS, they say it because they didn't get a REAL DCT so they pretend that theirs is "better" anyway.

Mercedes pulled that, then immediately within a year or two they switched to actual DCT's on their serious sports offerings.

It's just hyperbole until they actually get around to getting a true DCT.

[SVT666]

I like my sportscars light. But I'm not bothered by the weight of these cars because they aren't sportscars. My pick is still a Scat Pack Challenger, and that thing weighs some 4100 lbs. They're really cruisers that happen to go fast. I'm sure this Camaro can tear up a track just fine, but my enthusiasm for pony cars fade fast beyond the $45,000 mark.

See, I want my performance cars to actually handle half decently, so Challenger is out.

[CaminoRacer]

Mercedes, and others, have tried the whole "faster than a DCT" BS with regards to non DCT automatics. It's all marketing BS, they say it because they didn't get a REAL DCT so they pretend that theirs is "better" anyway.

Mercedes pulled that, then immediately within a year or two they switched to actual DCT's on their serious sports offerings.

It's just hyperbole until they actually get around to getting a true DCT.

I'm not sure why you really need faster upshifts than that, to be honest. Improving driving skill is going to get 100x better results than decreasing shift times by .02 of a second.

[Payman]

See, I want my performance cars to actually handle half decently, so Challenger is out.

Unless you're going racing, the point is largely moot. Below 7/10ths, the Challenger is far more comfortable, has better sightlines, and looks much better inside and out than the previous gen Camaro. Brother has both, and I've driven them both. Can't compare with the new Camaro, which I realize is a vast improvement, but as it stands for me the Scat Pack Challenger with 465 hp for $40,000 is hard to beat.

[12,000 RPM]

Unless you're going racing, the point is largely moot. Below 7/10ths, the Challenger is far more comfortable, has better sightlines, and looks much better inside and out than the previous gen Camaro. Brother has both, and I've driven them both. Can't compare with the new Camaro, which I realize is a vast improvement, but as it stands for me the Scat Pack Challenger with 465 hp for $40,000 is hard to beat.

Rustang is and for the last ~3 decades always has been the better "car car" so that's what it would be for me. I drove my buddy's Challenger R/T... lot better than I thought it would be, but still like driving a submarine

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I'm not sure why you really need faster upshifts than that, to be honest. Improving driving skill is going to get 100x better results than decreasing shift times by .02 of a second.

It's really not about that, it's about offering a better product. When everyone else is using a superior technology, it becomes a norm, DCT's will be(are?) the norm for a performance self shifting transmission.

Spending time to develop an inferior product, and then marketing it as better is just foolish, and to some people, sad.

A 8-10 speed traditional automatic is a fine transmission, possibly top of it's class, but for cars like the impala/malibu/cruze or for it's half ton gas trucks.

[CaminoRacer]

I'm actually not a fan of DCTs. I like torque converters if I can't be in control of the clutch.

[12,000 RPM]

It's really not about that, it's about offering a better product. When everyone else is using a superior technology, it becomes a norm, DCT's will be(are?) the norm for a performance self shifting transmission.

Spending time to develop an inferior product, and then marketing it as better is just foolish, and to some people, sad.

A 8-10 speed traditional automatic is a fine transmission, possibly top of it's class, but for cars like the impala/malibu/cruze or for it's half ton gas trucks.

What is superior about a DCT over a planetary auto? Other than super quick shifts I would say they are about equal. DCTs still grumble and judder from a stop and there was that whole Ford DCT fiasco that still hasn't really been resolved. No such problems from autos

[MX793]

I think Acura's DCT coupled with a torque converter is a good solution.  Torque converter smoothness when taking off from a stop, DCT shift speed and crispness once rolling.

[12,000 RPM]

Gah I meant to mention that. Even still though, autos lock up a lot more than they used to. I read somewhere Mazda pretty much locks up the torque converter on their cars from like 10 MPH onward between shifts.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

What is superior about a DCT over a planetary auto? Other than super quick shifts I would say they are about equal. DCTs still grumble and judder from a stop and there was that whole Ford DCT fiasco that still hasn't really been resolved. No such problems from autos

[Raza]

Hey, I'm on your side here.

[Raza]

I'm not sure why you really need faster upshifts than that, to be honest. Improving driving skill is going to get 100x better results than decreasing shift times by .02 of a second.

I believe shifts should only be as fast as you can physically do it. I was timing shifts in my car the other day. Using a stopwatch, it came to "fast enough".

[GoCougs]

DCTs are inherently superior - esp. no solenoids, no valves and no fluid coupling and the newer crop seem to be much better at the slow speed stuff.

But I will say, the new crop of slushies such as the ZF8 and the GM10 are monster. Their only real major detriment is no legit launch control, but then again, LC is a bit artificial, given how much rigamarole goes on in actually using it (press this, step on this, then step on that, then wait for revs to build, blah, blah).

[MX793]

My car has launch control.  Once you turn it on in the menu, it stays engaged until you turn it off.  After that, the steps to use it are easy.  Depress clutch, engage first gear, push throttle to the floor, sidestep clutch.

[12,000 RPM]

I believe shifts should only be as fast as you can physically do it. I was timing shifts in my car the other day. Using a stopwatch, it came to "fast enough".

Why should everyone else have to adhere to your beliefs?

(I prefer stickshift to DCTs BTW)

[Raza]

Why should everyone else have to adhere to your beliefs?

(I prefer stickshift to DCTs BTW)

I didn't say they had to.   

[68_427]

Love this color

[GoCougs]

My car has launch control.  Once you turn it on in the menu, it stays engaged until you turn it off.  After that, the steps to use it are easy.  Depress clutch, engage first gear, push throttle to the floor, sidestep clutch.

That's spin control.

With launch control, for each launch, you press a button, then step on the brake, then floor the gas, then wait till revs reach max, and then release the brake. I suspect they make it a bit of a PITA 'cause it's hard on the clutches. But whatevs, it's good for specs but in day-to-day driving it isn't all the useful - too much time/planning to use.

[MX793]

That's spin control.

With launch control, for each launch, you press a button, then step on the brake, then floor the gas, then wait till revs reach max, and then release the brake. I suspect they make it a bit of a PITA 'cause it's hard on the clutches. But whatevs, it's good for specs but in day-to-day driving it isn't all the useful - too much time/planning to use.

No, it's launch control.  When activated, the system holds the RPMs at a preset level while the accelerator is to the floor and the clutch is in (somewhere between 3 and 4 thousand RPM, IIRC).  Once you release the clutch, TCS manages torque to minimize wheelspin.  Essentially the same except the driver holds the clutch pedal instead of the brake to use the system.  And I don't have to go through a complicated routine each and every time I use it.