Definitely Getting a New Car - Timing/Model TBD

[SJ_GTI]

I'd be more bummed about going from the S4s V6 to the 2.0T

Its definitely a different way to make power, but you have to also keep in mindd the S4 is not only bigger and more cumbersome than both the R and the S3, its also 500-600 lbs heavier.

After driving the R and S3 I would say the S4 feels better at low revs (<2500 rpms) but both the R ans S3 feel better/faster at mid and high revs (>2500 rpms).

[Raza]

No sunroof is a killer for me.

[12,000 RPM]

I'd be more bummed about going from the S4s V6 to the 2.0T

Worth it for the ~500lb weight loss easily. Plus the S4's V6 is not exactly sonorous (though the fake engine noises of EA888 cars are ridiculous)

[GoCougs]

Lots of vids show the S3 running neck-n-neck with the B8 S4.

[CALL_911]

Na I know. I'm a sucker V6s over turbo 4s I guess

[MX793]

Na I know. I'm a sucker V6s over turbo 4s I guess

Yeah.  Smoother and much better exhaust note (generally).

[93JC]

I can't imagine how claustrophobic it must have felt driving that thing with no sunroof.

[SJ_GTI]

Lots of vids show the S3 running neck-n-neck with the B8 S4.

With DSG the S3 is definitely faster than my (6MT) S4. I would guess my S4 would be faster than the R 6MT from a stop, but if already in gear the two are pretty close but I would guess the R is a tad faster. I definitely prefered the feel of the R though.

[MexicoCityM3]

Na I know. I'm a sucker V6s over turbo 4s I guess

INLINE six or bust.

[GoCougs]

Na I know. I'm a sucker V6s over turbo 4s I guess

Sadly, the only N/A V6s left in the class, or anything close to it, are sucky (Honda and Lexus, and each is ~10 years old).

[CALL_911]

INLINE six or bust.

True

[CALL_911]

Sadly, the only N/A V6s left in the class, or anything close to it, are sucky (Honda and Lexus, and each is ~10 years old).

Old, but not sucky

[CALL_911]

Eh I guess they underachieve, on second thought

[2o6]

Am I the only one who thinks the BMW old style I6's are overrated? They're nowhere near as easy to rev as anything from Toyota or Honda. They're kinda lazy

[CaminoRacer]

Nah I6s are the best. High revving is overrated.

[Cookie Monster]

Nah I6s are the best. High revving is overrated.

No you're wrong.

[68_427]

For what it's worth the S4 v6 sounds really good actually

[68_427]

Sadly, the only N/A V6s left in the class, or anything close to it, are sucky (Honda and Lexus, and each is ~10 years old).

3.6 in the ATS is a great engine

[CaminoRacer]

No you're wrong.

No ur wrong

[12,000 RPM]

3.6 in the ATS is a great engine

V6 ATS needs more pedals though.

Hope they make the next SS on the Alpha platform.... shrink it down some.... offer the V6 as a base engine. Everyone over 30 here will have to buy one

[MexicoCityM3]

Am I the only one who thinks the BMW old style I6's are overrated? They're nowhere near as easy to rev as anything from Toyota or Honda. They're kinda lazy

Not easy to rev???

[MX793]

Not easy to rev???

Having a high redline and being easy to rev aren't necessarily the same thing.

[GoCougs]

Eh I guess they underachieve, on second thought

3.6 in the ATS is a great engine

Yes, that's what I meant. They're okay for getting a car down the road but the cars of class with these ancient N/A V6s are little/no faster than V6 Camcords. The one thing they do have going for them, and it's huge, is they are very reliable, which the current crop of turbo motors will not be (or at least not as long lived).

[GoCougs]

Am I the only one who thinks the BMW old style I6's are overrated? They're nowhere near as easy to rev as anything from Toyota or Honda. They're kinda lazy

No. The industry agrees with you too, as most any mainstream manufacturer long ago converted from I6 to V6 (esp. Toyota and Nissan) for the primary reasons BMW is struggling now with their I6 - packaging and displacement/power (BMW had to go turbo long ago to keep up with the N/A competition). Now that everything is going turbo, things aren't quite so obvious, but I predict BMW will still struggle, esp. now that the Japanese are starting to go turbo V6.

[MX793]

Yes, that's what I meant. They're okay for getting a car down the road but the cars of class with these ancient N/A V6s are little/no faster than V6 Camcords. The one thing they do have going for them, and it's huge, is they are very reliable, which the current crop of turbo motors will not be (or at least not as long lived).

Perhaps this speaks more of manufacturers sharing engines between their mainstream and premium branded offerings than of mediocre motors being offered in premium products.

[ifcar]

Perhaps this speaks more of manufacturer's sharing engines between their mainstream and premium branded offerings than of mediocre motors being offered in premium products.

Fortunately, Toyota will stop offering a V6 Camry with the next generation, so the IS350 will go back to having an excellent engine under Cougs Standard.

[GoCougs]

Perhaps this speaks more of manufacturer's sharing engines between their mainstream and premium branded offerings than of mediocre motors being offered in premium products.

No, not really. Nissan did excellent in its demarcation of the VQ based on application, and most other automakers did a pretty good job too, such as GM and its 3.6L. It's not that hard. 10 years riding the same horse is embarrassing, but really, if customers still buy the product, why change it? An enthusiast would have to be absolutely nuts to buy a modern IS350 or TLX.

[SJ_GTI]

So after thinking about it some more, I am back to leaning towards buying the R. This is my line of thinking...

First and foremost, the R is more fun to drive than my S4. There is obviously some subjectivity to this, but for me the combination of smaller physical size and lighter weight trumps the more powerful engine. I am not a fan of the super light clutch but I liked the shifter better. And while the infotainment system isn't as nice as the S3's, it is an upgrade over my S4. I am particularly interested in trying out the apple carplay.

Apart from that I feel like it just checks more of the boxes I want in a car: Small, fun to drive but premium features/refinement, 4 doors, AWD, and manual transmission.

Still, its not perfect. While the interior is decent, its not as nice as the S3. It doesn't have all the features I would want. But of the cars I've driven it seems like the best compromise. I am also thinking that in the event I regret my decision the Golf should retain enough of its value that I could trade it in again after a year or so if I am really, really unhappy with it.

If I don't change my mind again by tomorrow I will call the dealer and (assuming the R is still there and they stand by their offer on my S4) start the purchase process...

[GoCougs]

Sweet!

If the Golf R had LED headlights and taillights I'd be back to being all in. The QX50 I had a couple of weeks ago had headlights at least 3x better than the G (not LED but still WAY better) and it's a factor for me.

[CaminoRacer]