Question of the Day: Should French cars return to America?

[cawimmer430]

Question of the Day: Should French cars return to America?

Renaults and Citroëns and Peugeots once roamed American streets. Do you want them back?



The last mainstream car sold in the United States bearing the badges of a French marque was the 1991 Peugeot 405. Oh, sure, Renault DNA lived on in Chrysler products well into the current century, thanks to all the components and design concepts that AMC and then Chrysler lifted from the Renault 21/25-based Eagle Premier. And of course there's the Nissan-Renault partnership. But what about bringing back actual French cars, with the badges of French brands displayed proudly, to the US market? Would you buy one? Would anyone buy one?


Autoblog Poll Results




Link: http://www.autoblog.com/2016/08/12/question-of-the-day-should-french-cars-return-to-america/

[MrH]

No.

[cawimmer430]

No.

You don't want one of these?

[2o6]

People here don't like having choices and are boring.



I think something like PSA's DS line could carve out a nice little Volvo-esque niche, but I don't think their mainstream offerings would actually gain much traction from the people who buy Focuses, Cruzes, Civics, Corollas, and Elantras en masse without thinking.



I think a limited network with a small sales goal (maybe 30-40K units a year for the entire line) would be an achievable goal. That sounds like what PSA is thinking anyways.



Any Renault could be ported over with minmal changes to Nissan. The cars that would be volume sellers in the US are basically just rebranded Nissans (Koleos and Kajdar = Qashqai and Rogue).

[12,000 RPM]

I was gonna say the DS line is about all I could see, but that whole "tweener" thing is DOA- top trim mainstream brands are just as nice, while costing a little less and having a much better dealership network.

The move has to bring value to the customer. More choice for nothing more than choice sake is of little value. Mainstream French cars would be like selling more brands of white bread.

[MexicoCityM3]

Question of the Day: Should French cars return to America?

Renaults and Citroëns and Peugeots once roamed American streets. Do you want them back?



The last mainstream car sold in the United States bearing the badges of a French marque was the 1991 Peugeot 405. Oh, sure, Renault DNA lived on in Chrysler products well into the current century, thanks to all the components and design concepts that AMC and then Chrysler lifted from the Renault 21/25-based Eagle Premier. And of course there's the Nissan-Renault partnership. But what about bringing back actual French cars, with the badges of French brands displayed proudly, to the US market? Would you buy one? Would anyone buy one?


Autoblog Poll Results




Link: http://www.autoblog.com/2016/08/12/question-of-the-day-should-french-cars-return-to-america/

We get both of those brands here. But with a mix of mostly their "third world" line along with a few "real" euro products.

I find them quirky.

My dad was a Renault fan way back. We had an R10, R12 and a couple of R18s. Grandpa had an R5.

Renault used to have a reputation for unparalleled comfort here. I think that's no longer the case. They do build great hot hatches though. Clio RS is available here. I saw one the other day on the street and thought it looked cool.

I'd say you're missing out but not on much.

[veeman]

There's only 1 European mainstreamer car brand available here which has only a few percentage points market share and recently took a big hit to their reputation. 

I'd love more European brands just for the sake of variety.  In the luxury category, people are willing to sacrifice economic value and reliability for prestige and inherent qualities of the car in terms of how it looks, drives, and feels.  In the mainstreamer category, not as much.  The car has to be reliable and/or inexpensive as well as look good and drive well.  I don't know if the French can compete. 

[Madman]

I spent most of the 1990s roaming American roads behind the wheels of French cars (Renault and two Peugeots) and have logged more miles with French machinery than everyone else on this board combined, which should qualify me as an expert on this subject.

First, let me say that almost everything you think you know about French cars is probably wrong.

All modern cars, including French ones, are built around international parameters and are fundamentally no different from cars built anywhere else in the world.  The problem was never really the cars themselves.  It was the attitudes of the French executives who were exiled to America to run what was considered a "hardship" outpost.  In other words, being sent to run the American operation was a sure sign you pissed-off the wrong person back in Paris and this dead-end job was your punishment.  At least that was certainly the case with Peugeot.

It's hard to believe Peugeot once rivalled Volvo in terms of sales in America.  That was under PMA's first boss, an American whose name I can't recall.  Every PMA boss after him were all French and none of them had any clue as to how to sell cars to Americans.  If Peugeot-Citroën-DS-Whatever were to return to these shores, they must make hiring people with a real understanding of the American market their number-one priority.  Past mistakes, such as pricing the Peugeot 405 against the BMW 3 Series (Yes, they REALLY did that!) can't be repeated.

Oh, and to correct the Autoblog article, a few 1992-spec Peugeots made if over before headquarters back in Paris pulled the plug.  They are exceptionally rare today.

[BimmerM3]

People here don't like having choices.

I don't know about that. 20 years ago BMW basically had what, 5 models - 3, 5, 7, Z3, Z8? Today they have 14 available in the US.

[CALL_911]

No, they absolutely should not return.

[12,000 RPM]

I don't know about that. 20 years ago BMW basically had what, 5 models - 3, 5, 7, Z3, Z8? Today they have 14 available in the US.

I think BMW has jumped the shark with all of their niches, but the models they introduced in the ~10 years after 96- X5, X3, 6 series, 2 series- were key, well timed adds to the lineup. BMW didn't have anything like the X5 in the mid 90s.

Contrast that with a run of the mill French mainstreamer, which is "fundamentally no different than cars built anywhere else in the world". Similar spec, quality, value... what's the net plus, besides another dealership down the block?

[CaminoRacer]

No. Because meh

[2o6]

I don't know about that. 20 years ago BMW basically had what, 5 models - 3, 5, 7, Z3, Z8? Today they have 14 available in the US.

I meant this forum in particular

[Soup DeVille]

It'd be nice, but it would be financially disastrous.

Fiat is already failing, I doubt Citroen wants to be the next lemming off the cliff.

[Char]

Question, does Germany let France keep all it's Gold medals?

[93JC]

I'm not opposed to French manufacturers selling their wares here, but the business case is extremely flimsy. I wouldn't buy one.

[68_427]

I'd like to see other people buy them

[giant_mtb]

I'd like to see other people buy them

Agreed. I'd love to detail all these quirky, European things. Forget owning one, though.

[Raza]

I don't know about that. 20 years ago BMW basically had what, 5 models - 3, 5, 7, Z3, Z8? Today they have 14 available in the US.

And they all suck are overpriced!

[Vinsanity]

what would be their selling point? aside from the niche products like the Megane RS, what would they have to offer to sway the potential Honda Civic buyer?

[Char]

And they all suck are overpriced!

*Triggered*

I would take all of those over a French car.

[Raza]

*Triggered*

I would take all of those over a French car.

Sure, they're better than the French cars. But that only counts if they're priced comparably. At the same money, the BMW is a better choice. But at 50% more? 100% more?

[cawimmer430]

what would be their selling point? aside from the niche products like the Megane RS, what would they have to offer to sway the potential Honda Civic buyer?

These cars would appeal to buyers who are looking for more individuality and perhaps a different styling direction. The French brands also have some unique and amazing family-oriented cars that offer value, comfort and some really cool styling. 


Can you get a cool-looking and stylish MPV in the US for example?





Then there's this - perfect for the adventurous crowd which likes to take road trips but in style (and fuel economy).





The Renault Megane Wagon is a seriously good-looking car, and a worthy Golf Wagon rival. 

[12,000 RPM]

The brands in the US have cars like that though. They don't bring them over here because nobody wants them. French friends bringing them over wouldn't make us want them either. It's just a bad idea

[Madman]

As usual, the Debbie-Downers are here in force to crap all over anything not expected to sell a bazillion units a year, as if that is the one-and-only reason for having anything come to market.

Why have any other alternatives at all, right?  Taking this argument to it's logical conclusion, why have the Chevy Silverado or Ram Truck when we already have the Ford F-150, right?  They're all pretty similar, so why have the option to choose between them?  As far as midsized sedans are concerned, the Camry is the number-one seller, so what's the point of the Ford Fusion or Honda Accord?  May as well get rid of those, too.  And who needs a dozen different yet identical-looking crossovers from which which to choose?  Let's just pick one and make that the only option for people to buy.  That makes everything so much simpler, right?

Yep, one pickup, one sedan and one crossover.  That should cover about 97% of the needs of the US market  Choice be damned! 


I swear, some of you guys here want the US car market to look like Soviet-era East Germany.  "Okay Comrade, this is your officially approved beige transportation device.  It's just like the ones everyone else has."  And to think some of you guys have the nerve to call ME a Communist! 

[ifcar]

The issue is just that it's difficult to win buyers away from the established brands. When is the last time a new automaker entered the mainstream U.S. market and succeeded? I guess Kia? And in the time since then, a number of smaller companies have either gotten smaller or disappeared -- Daewoo, Suzuki, Isuzu, Mitsubishi. It's just so expensive to establish yourself in the U.S. market yet without a guarantee of success.

Probably the best bet is to partner one or two models with an existing U.S. brand, to take advantage of name recognition and dealer network. Renault could do that with Nissan with only the expense of certifying the car...but clearly they've decided that's not worth it. Even though Nissan could certainly benefit from smaller, sportier small cars, given that the Versa and Sentra are instead about massive room on the cheap.

[cawimmer430]

I swear, some of you guys here want the US car market to look like Soviet-era East Germany.  "Okay Comrade, this is your officially approved beige transportation device.  It's just like the ones everyone else has."  And to think some of you guys have the nerve to call ME a Communist! 

   

[12,000 RPM]

As usual, the Debbie-Downers are here in force to crap all over anything not expected to sell a bazillion units a year, as if that is the one-and-only reason for having anything come to market.

Why have any other alternatives at all, right?  Taking this argument to it's logical conclusion, why have the Chevy Silverado or Ram Truck when we already have the Ford F-150, right?  They're all pretty similar, so why have the option to choose between them?  As far as midsized sedans are concerned, the Camry is the number-one seller, so what's the point of the Ford Fusion or Honda Accord?  May as well get rid of those, too.  And who needs a dozen different yet identical-looking crossovers from which which to choose?  Let's just pick one and make that the only option for people to buy.  That makes everything so much simpler, right?

Yep, one pickup, one sedan and one crossover.  That should cover about 97% of the needs of the US market  Choice be damned! 


I swear, some of you guys here want the US car market to look like Soviet-era East Germany.  "Okay Comrade, this is your officially approved beige transportation device.  It's just like the ones everyone else has."  And to think some of you guys have the nerve to call ME a Communist! 

Nobody said any of this. Choice is good when it's choice people WANT. People WANT Rams and Silverados as well as F-150s. People WANT Fusions and Accords along with Camrys. And they want them in high enough numbers that warrant the manufacturers making them.

You look at every import success story, there was either huge demand or a clear need that wasn't being filled. That Camry you knock? It was what people NEEDED after decades of domestic POSs that guzzled gas and/or couldn't stay together for more than 40K miles. You look at the sport compacts of the mid 00s.... people were BEGGING for foreign manufacturers to bring over cars like the WRX, or the full tilt Euro M3, or the GT-R. Who in the US, besides you and 2o6, has expressed any kind of desire for French cars here whatsoever? Europeans don't even like French cars... if they did the French brands wouldn't be in dire straits right now. So what "choice" would be added? These brands coming over would be like if you had a McDonalds, Wendys and Burger King in your neighborhood and someone opened up a Sbarros. It's just a slightly different spin on the same low quality generic fast food.

[cawimmer430]

Europeans don't even like French cars... if they did the French brands wouldn't be in dire straits right now.

Huh? 

Not to long ago Renault was Europe's fourth most popular car manufacturer based on sales alone. And French cars are doing well in Europe.

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20160601/ANE/160609995/french-car-sales-jump-22-in-may-on-extra-selling-days

http://www.best-selling-cars.com/france/2016-q1-france-best-selling-car-brands-models/

[MexicoCityM3]

Sure, they're better than the French cars. But that only counts if they're priced comparably. At the same money, the BMW is a better choice. But at 50% more? 100% more?

BMW is better/competitive with its peers. Sales keep rising (everywhere but in the US).