Can't order a car spec'd the way I want

[MX793]

Some cars have more permissive ESP than others.  My last Mustang allowed very little slippage before the ESP stepped in.  TCS would sometimes intervene pre-emptively.  My new actually allows a surprising amount of slip.  IIRC, the performance pack option includes more lax ESP/TCS settings than the standard cars even with everything in its normal, fully on setting.  Sport mode relaxes things further.

[12,000 RPM]

To be fair, it was in the wet, and it was only once. It did not take much to get the Z out of shape at low speeds in the wet. In the dry I've never come close to spinning. Plus the Z's TC was pretty crude.... it cut power like a meat cleaver which sometimes felt like it could make things worse. After that scare I grew to respect the car a lot more when the roads were not dry.

[MexicoCityM3]

Some cars have more permissive ESP than others.  My last Mustang allowed very little slippage before the ESP stepped in.  TCS would sometimes intervene pre-emptively.  My new actually allows a surprising amount of slip.  IIRC, the performance pack option includes more lax ESP/TCS settings than the standard cars even with everything in its normal, fully on setting.  Sport mode relaxes things further.

I think it's possible that FWD ESP systems tend to be more permissive that RWD systems.

[MexicoCityM3]

To be fair, it was in the wet, and it was only once. It did not take much to get the Z out of shape at low speeds in the wet. In the dry I've never come close to spinning. Plus the Z's TC was pretty crude.... it cut power like a meat cleaver which sometimes felt like it could make things worse. After that scare I grew to respect the car a lot more when the roads were not dry.

Wet makes a huge difference. Traction limit is traction limit.

A friend spun his 1M in the wet on the highway at high speed. He had the MDM aka "sport" mode of the DSC enabled.

[12,000 RPM]

I think it's possible that FWD ESP systems tend to be more permissive that RWD systems.

I would imagine as much. Where's the danger?

[MX793]

I think it's possible that FWD ESP systems tend to be more permissive that RWD systems.

Only FWD car I've ever had that had it is my Jetta, and that system is super restrictive.  My Mazda had no driver aids (no ABS, TCS, or ESP).

[Raza]

I used to turn it off in my Jetta and Passat. The Z4's is pretty lax, not that I have many chances to break traction on city streets.

[SJ_GTI]

Traction stability control has improved a lot over the years. I am curious to try the new car out in the snow when the time comes. It has on/limited/off. The "limited" option has me intrigued.

[CaminoRacer]

BMW's non-M ESP was pretty great in the early 2000s. Just the right amount of drifting was allowed, then reeled back in smoothly.