The new Supra

[Soup DeVille]

You can't have a halo car that you don't make the engine for. That's just an advertisement for another company's work.

[MX793]

The 4th gen Supra was a bit of an anomaly - this new Supra is in the spirit of the previous generations, particularly 1 and 2.

Lexus RC (and LC500) are luxo GTs, which are by definition heavy.

I'm pretty sure Toyota knows that "sports cars" have long since fallen out of favor. I suspect this is just a halo Hail Mary a la LF-A - sales results I'm guess likely irrelevant.

The German motor is what totally kills it for me. 

Halo cars, a la the LFA, should have eyebrow raising numbers or otherwise tickle the fancy of enthusiasts.  There's nothing Halo about a car using somebody else's engine that boasts ho-hum stats.  Toyota's own, naturally aspirated V6 from the Camry makes nearly as much power.  Unless it was some featherweight, mid-engine affair, nobody would consider a Camry-powered Supra to be much of a Halo car, either.  Why on Earth would someone pay $60K for a slushy-only, 335 hp Toyota coupe when for a little ($5k) more, they could get a Lexus RC-F.  The L badge gets you a better dealership experience, more curb appeal, and you get a rip-roaring NA V8 that sounds and feels far more special than any motor BMW makes and belts out 125 more horsepower?  Or save yourself a big pile of money (like $15k) and get the RC350, which still gets the Lexus dealer experience, brand cache, and a >300hp motor.  Yeah, I'm sure it will be a bit slower than the new Supra, but it's A LOT less money.

[12,000 RPM]

You can't have a halo car that you don't make the engine for. That's just an advertisement for another company's work.

And Toyota makes better engines than BMW

Whole thing is truly bizarre

[FoMoJo]

And Toyota makes better engines than BMW

Whole thing is truly bizarre

Better how?

[GoCougs]

A $60k Supra is most absolutely a halo car - there's no business case for it, so why do it? If it wasn't called a "Supra" it would never be done.

But mos def Toyota makes a better motor than BMW.

[BimmerM3]

nobody would consider a Camry-powered Supra to be much of a Halo car, either.

If it were tuned for performance, I don't think anyone would care outside of a bunch of internet people who'd never buy one anyway. We've had successful "Silverado-powered" Corvettes, "Ranger-powered" Mustangs, and "Celica-powered" Lotus Elises.

[FoMoJo]

A $60k Supra is most absolutely a halo car - there's no business case for it, so why do it? If it wasn't called a "Supra" it would never be done.

But mos def Toyota makes a better motor than BMW.

But do they make a straight 6?

[Soup DeVille]

But do they make a straight 6?

Seems like that would be a weird point to get hung on. Toyota ditched their other straight sixes too years ago; and how many would really object to a 5.7 liter V8 Supra anyways? (an existing Toyota engine)

[GoCougs]

If it were tuned for performance, I don't think anyone would care outside of a bunch of internet people who'd never buy one anyway. We've had successful "Silverado-powered" Corvettes, "Ranger-powered" Mustangs, and "Celica-powered" Lotus Elises.

Thing is, the Supra's legacy is based on performance variations of the corporate I6, which is/was keeping in line with what other full-line manufacturers do/did as noted.

This is a fanboy halo car, and my bet is Supraphiles would much prefer a ~400 hp twin turbo version of the corporate Toyota 3.5L V6 over the planned ~380 hp turbo BMW I6.

[MX793]

Seems like that would be a weird point to get hung on. Toyota ditched their other straight sixes too years ago; and how many would really object to a 5.7 liter V8 Supra anyways? (an existing Toyota engine)

They could use the 5.7 from the Tundra, or the Lexus 5.0, or turbo/supercharge the 3.5V6 (a la the Lotus Evora).  All would have more character, and more performance, than the 335 hp BMW motor.

[GoCougs]

But do they make a straight 6?

Toyota might still for some Japanese-market vehicles, but by and large Toyota dumped the I6 years ago...

[FoMoJo]

Seems like that would be a weird point to get hung on. Toyota ditched their other straight sixes too years ago; and how many would really object to a 5.7 liter V8 Supra anyways? (an existing Toyota engine)

I would think that they would want to maintain the heritage of the original Supra with an I6.   

[Soup DeVille]

I would think that they would want to maintain the heritage of the original Supra with an I6.   

A Toyota I6, yes. However, if one was given a choice between a Toyota V8/V6 or a non-Toyota I6, which would be more important in your Toyota Sports Car, heritage wise?

[Soup DeVille]

But do they make a straight 6?

I think the diesel Land Cruiser...

[FoMoJo]

A Toyota I6, yes. However, if one was given a choice between a Toyota V8/V6 or a non-Toyota I6, which would be more important in your Toyota Sports Car, heritage wise?

That they're sharing the platform with BMW Z4, I suppose it wouldn't really matter much, other than an I6 with, maybe, a Toyota badge. 

[12,000 RPM]

I would think that they would want to maintain the heritage of the original Supra with an I6.   

Nah... Nissan ditched the I6 in the Z and the sun came up the next morning

If the Camry V6 is good enough for 6 figure Lotuses it's good enough for a Supra.

[FoMoJo]

Nah... Nissan ditched the I6 in the Z and the sun came up the next morning

If the Camry V6 is good enough for 6 figure Lotuses it's good enough for a Supra.

Yeah, but Supra without an I6 would be like Mustang without a V8.

[Soup DeVille]

Yeah, but Supra without an I6 would be like Mustang without a V8.

So a Supra with a BMW engine would be like a Mustang with a small block Chevy.

[FoMoJo]

So a Supra with a BMW engine would be like a Mustang with a small block Chevy.

Nah, BMW makes a good engine.

[Soup DeVille]

Nah, BMW makes a good engine.

As does Chevy. For most of its history, a better one than the Ford.

[FoMoJo]

As does Chevy. For most of its history, a better one than the Ford.

Not Chevy.  Oldsmobile for a time, maybe Pontiac. 

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Nah, BMW makes a good engine.

I see more Fox Bodies with LS Swaps than 5.0s........ 

As does Chevy. For most of its history, a better one than the Ford.

[Soup DeVille]

Not Chevy.  Oldsmobile for a time, maybe Pontiac. 

Not the 307 or 305, which admittedly would be a more fair comparison by displacment alone, but the 327 and 350, which were the sports engines in the competitors. Just compare them side by side, year by year to the 302.

(The big block Mustangs for the most part are an exception here)

[FoMoJo]

I see more Fox Bodies with LS Swaps than 5.0s........ 

A Chevy fan whose Camaro body kept falling apart?

[FoMoJo]

Not the 307 or 305, which admittedly would be a more fair comparison by displacment alone, but the 327 and 350, which were the sports engines in the competitors. Just compare them side by side, year by year to the 302.

(The big block Mustangs for the most part are an exception here)

Anything after the '70s isn't worth comparing, but they both made some pretty stout engines in the '60s.  The best comparison I think, is the '69/'70 Boss 302 vs Camaro Z/28l engines.  They're about the closest Ford and Chevy ever made, but the Boss 302 always had the edge.

As well, being a big race fan in that era, Ford had some of the most competitive engines in pretty much every racing series world-wide. 

What can I say, I'm a Ford Racing fan.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

A Chevy fan whose Camaro body kept falling apart?

And I also owned a 5.0 that caught fire for no reason!   

[Soup DeVille]

Anything after the '70s isn't worth comparing, but they both made some pretty stout engines in the '60s.  The best comparison I think, is the '69/'70 Boss 302 vs Camaro Z/28l engines.  They're about the closest Ford and Chevy ever made, but the Boss 302 always had the edge.

As well, being a big race fan in that era, Ford had some of the most competitive engines in pretty much every racing series world-wide. 

What can I say, I'm a Ford Racing fan.

The Boss 302 and other special Mustangs were indeed special, but the normal, cooking grade V8 Mustangs are what I'm talking about, and in general, the "normal" engines were a bit outclassed.

[FoMoJo]

And I also owned a 5.0 that caught fire for no reason!   

Okay, so my brothers and I bought a '51 Chevy as our first car with the old stovebolt six.  First time we took it out on the expressway, it threw a rod.  We had it rebuilt, took it out again on the expressway and it threw a rod again.  After that, it was all shoebox Fords and Mercurys, till the '60s, that is.  Couldn't beat the old flat head V8s of that era.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

The Boss 302 and other special Mustangs were indeed special, but the normal, cooking grade V8 Mustangs are what I'm talking about, and in general, the "normal" engines were a bit outclassed.

Okay, so my brothers and I bought a '51 Chevy as our first car with the old stovebolt six.  First time we took it out on the expressway, it threw a rod.  We had it rebuilt, took it out again on the expressway and it threw a rod again.  After that, it was all shoebox Fords and Mercurys, till the '60s, that is.  Couldn't beat the old flat head V8s of that era.

Did you Ford guys remember to put oil in it? 

[FoMoJo]

The Boss 302 and other special Mustangs were indeed special, but the normal, cooking grade V8 Mustangs are what I'm talking about, and in general, the "normal" engines were a bit outclassed.

I had a 289 in my '66 Mustang that I bought new; my first new car.  I had it for 4 years and it was perfect.  With the thin-wall casting and higher nickel content in the steel, they were lighter and stronger and more compact than the competition.  The Chevy Small Block had a lot of variations.  Some were better than others; as you say, the 327.