End of the sub-$18,000 car?

[giant_mtb]

2 much woark. fancy electronics 4 teh whin

Nooooo not teh technerlergy!

[2o6]

Do you guys realize how absolutely fucking cheap modern infotainment screens are? All GM cars come with GMmylink which is a screen (No CD player) that has a backup camera that would easily be added in for minimal cost.

[ifcar]

The camera will just be broken out of the pricy tech package and made standard equipment.  It won't be adding thousands to the base price of the vehicle.  The HW required isn't that expensive.  IIRC, it's less than $200.

Yep. A few cars with standard backup cameras (some Hondas and Hyundais) have converted the pricey upgrade to simply be a bigger display screen, but even there the market has pushed for the big screen to quickly be more widely available.

There are items that have made cheap cars significantly more expensive, and backup cameras just aren't going to be one of them.

[Payman]

Yeah okay, screens are cheap, but there's a lot more to it than that. Take the Nissan Versa...

Base model



Upscale model




Assuming the base models will now come with the upscale model's screen, that means the upgraded stereo interface as well. Not sure if a backup camera is available in any trim of the versa, but it'll need to be wired into all trim levels. While this might not bump the price of the base versa from $11,900 to $14,900, it'll still be a lot more than $200.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I don't want a touchscreen anything in a car. I like my base model with 3D control surfaces. Oooo 3D!

[veeman]

There's a fairly recently enacted law in NYC that all large trucks need to have convex crossover mirrors in front so that the truck driver can see directly what's in front of the truck (like a child) at a stop light for example.

This law and a requirement for backup cameras on all cars is good, just as there has been a requirement for all new cars to have seat belts and airbags for several years now and fairly recently electronic stability control.

The minimum base price for cars will continue to rise making them unaffordable for some.  The alternative is what you have in India or China where the basic car is a rolling Iron Maiden.

[12,000 RPM]

Old cars are good enough that new car affordability is no big deal anyway. Most people will be OK with a 5-10 year old Camry/Corolla with an extended warranty.

[Soup DeVille]

There's a fairly recently enacted law in NYC that all large trucks need to have convex crossover mirrors in front so that the truck driver can see directly what's in front of the truck (like a child) at a stop light for example.

This law and a requirement for backup cameras on all cars is good, just as there has been a requirement for all new cars to have seat belts and airbags for several years now and fairly recently electronic stability control.

The minimum base price for cars will continue to rise making them unaffordable for some.  The alternative is what you have in India or China where the basic car is a rolling Iron Maiden.

Some aids seem like they can lead to development of bad habits. IMO, learning to back with the mirrors is a necessary skill that a backup camera may be a substitute for, but does not give the same sort of awareness of what the rest of the car is doing.

[12,000 RPM]

I have been seeing a LOT of commercials selling the merits of drivers aids on the basis of people being shitty drivers.

[giant_mtb]

I have been seeing a LOT of commercials selling the merits of drivers aids on the basis of people being shitty drivers.

Look, you can text and drive and the car will brake for you!

Oh, I mean, don't text and drive...but if you do...

[Galaxy]

Even in Germany you can get cars for under $10.000, and that includes 19%VAT.

[veeman]

Some aids seem like they can lead to development of bad habits. IMO, learning to back with the mirrors is a necessary skill that a backup camera may be a substitute for, but does not give the same sort of awareness of what the rest of the car is doing.

Yeah that's true but overall a backup camera is a very good thing to have especially with many cars having very poor sight lines like Camaros.  Having owned cars with and without backup cameras, it makes a huge difference for me especially at night in poorly lit areas.  Honestly I can parallel park my Infiniti QX56 (which has surround vision) easier and quicker than my Beetle because I know where the front, sides, and back of my car is in relation to the curb and the car in front and back of me. 

[veeman]

That's weird.  It won't let me correctly spell "parallel" and I fixed it a few times

[veeman]

See?!

[Soup DeVille]

See?!

It's one of Kevin's Easter eggs. Like Dodge Monaco or pushrod.

[Soup DeVille]

Oh looks like the others have been deleted.

[MX793]

Some aids seem like they can lead to development of bad habits. IMO, learning to back with the mirrors is a necessary skill that a backup camera may be a substitute for, but does not give the same sort of awareness of what the rest of the car is doing.

Cameras help fill in for a common blind spot that mirrors don't cover today.  Functionally, it's a mirror.  It will not help inattentive drivers who don't bother to look at the screen, same as a mirror doesn't help if you don't look at it (I'm sure we've all heard of people who backed into their own garage door because they forgot to open it and didn't bother to look in their mirror).  Unlike other driver aids, I don't see this one necessarily creating bad habits.  People with poor spacial awareness or who don't look at the mirrors they have won't be helped.  People who do now have one less blind spot.

[2o6]

Yeah okay, screens are cheap, but there's a lot more to it than that. Take the Nissan Versa...

Base model



Upscale model




Assuming the base models will now come with the upscale model's screen, that means the upgraded stereo interface as well. Not sure if a backup camera is available in any trim of the versa, but it'll need to be wired into all trim levels. While this might not bump the price of the base versa from $11,900 to $14,900, it'll still be a lot more than $200.

The wiring is probably there and cheap to route. Nissan/Renault sells the Kwid....a car that's roughly half the price. It comes with a backup camera and touch screen.


Both screens and cameras are cheap.

[AutobahnSHO]

Even in Germany you can get cars for under $10.000, and that includes 19%VAT.

Can you still get BMW/ MB with non-power windows there??

[MrH]

It's one of Kevin's Easter eggs. Like Dodge Monaco or pushrod.

We need the pushrod easter egg back.

[12,000 RPM]

There are aftermarket 7" touchscreen units for like $100-150.... they can definitely make them standard equipment

They should go even bigger..... make a 12" screen standard. Democratize the Panamera tech! Mandate that the rear view camera pop out of a Panamera style spoiler (for weather protection)

[AutobahnSHO]

There are aftermarket 7" touchscreen units for like $100-150.... they can definitely make them standard equipment

They should go even bigger..... make a 12" screen standard. Democratize the Panamera tech! Mandate that the rear view camera pop out of a Panamera style spoiler (for weather protection)

Better mandate moahr power for freeway merges too.

[BimmerM3]

Both screens and cameras are cheap.

Seriously. My dad just bought a 27" computer monitor for $200. Adding the cost of a tiny screen and a webcam isn't going to add thousands to the cost of vehicles.

As usual, this is just general CarSpin panic over things changing in any way.

[Raza]

As much as I'm against this in general, I get it.  It's more of a natural consequence of all the other safety laws that continually push the beltline higher and higher, which forces the rear end higher.  Having driven a few modern sedans, it's not easy to see out of that back, and when reversing in a few tight spaces, I've been glad for the rearview camera. 

[Rich]

The answer is always Miata

[AutobahnSHO]

The answer is always Miata

yup!

[ifcar]

Yeah okay, screens are cheap, but there's a lot more to it than that. Take the Nissan Versa...

Base model



Upscale model




Assuming the base models will now come with the upscale model's screen, that means the upgraded stereo interface as well. Not sure if a backup camera is available in any trim of the versa, but it'll need to be wired into all trim levels. While this might not bump the price of the base versa from $11,900 to $14,900, it'll still be a lot more than $200.

Aside from the screen, why would that interface cost any more?

[Payman]

Aside from the screen, why would that interface cost any more?

So you think they'll offer a feature from an upper range model without charging more for the base model? I dunno guys. It seems obvious to me the easiest way around this regulation is to no longer offer stripper base models altogether.

[MX793]

So you think they'll offer a feature from an upper range model without charging more for the base model? I dunno guys. It seems obvious to me the easiest way around this regulation is to no longer offer stripper base models altogether.

In a lot of newer cars, the interface panel isn't part of the stereo.  It's a circuit board with some buttons on it that is wired to the actual stereo head unit, concealed behind the panel.  One panel shouldn't really cost more than the another.  It's the stereo unit where the features are, not the button panel.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Aside from the screen, why would that interface cost any more?

Software engineering! Each manufacturer has to reinvent thr wheel for every touch screen interfacr.