2o6 Short Takes - 4cyl Mustang and ND Miata

[MrH]

I still think that even with a turbo you need at least 3ccs for every 4lbs of curb weight. So a 4,000lb car should have a 3L turbo, not a 2L. Ideally I'd love 1:1. Obviously OEMs have a lot more insight than I do but I'd imagine once you essentially eliminate pumping losses with boost the effect of displacement on fuel economy is a lot less pronounced.

Of all weird sporty criteria I've heard, this is one of the strangest.

[12,000 RPM]

Whats weird about it? A 2L moving 2 tons is a recipe for disaster. Needs at least 3L. A ~3300lb family car should probably have something closer to a 2.5L turbo, not a 2.0. Etc. Displacement helps.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Whats weird about it? A 2L moving 2 tons is a recipe for disaster. Needs at least 3L. A ~3300lb family car should probably have something closer to a 2.5L turbo, not a 2.0. Etc. Displacement helps.

[MX793]

Whats weird about it? A 2L moving 2 tons is a recipe for disaster. Needs at least 3L. A ~3300lb family car should probably have something closer to a 2.5L turbo, not a 2.0. Etc. Displacement helps.

A blown 2 liter is effectively larger than 2 liters.  How is a 240 hp/ 270 lb-ft 2.0T pulling a 4000 lbs vehicle worse than the 185 hp/184 lb-ft 2.7L NA 4-banger that serves as the base engine in the 2-ton Toyota Highlander?  Or the 160 hp variant in the 4500 lbs Tacoma?  How is it any more disastrous than the <2.5L, <180 hp/180 lb-ft NA 4-bangers that have served as the base engine in 3000+ lbs midsize family sedans for decades?

[Soup DeVille]

Back in the '60s, GM had this idea that weight and displacement should be connected like that. Hence the 350 could only go into cars that weighed 3500 lbs or more, and only the big Caddies got 429s and 472s.

GM figured out that was short sighted and obsolete by the mid '70s.

[MX793]

Back in the '60s, GM had this idea that weight and displacement should be connected like that. Hence the 350 could only go into cars that weighed 3500 lbs or more, and only the big Caddies got 429s and 472s.

GM figured out that was short sighted and obsolete by the mid '70s.

For GM, it was a safety concern and not making cars dangerously powerful.  With most of their engines making similar specific output, it was effectively a self-imposed power/weight cap.

[CaminoRacer]

With most of their engines making similar specific output, it was effectively a self-imposed power/weight cap.

Except for some of the engines that were supposedly underrated.

[MX793]

Except for some of the engines that were supposedly underrated.

With the technology of the time (2-valve, pushrod, carburetor), you weren't going to get more than 1.3 gross hp per cubic inch and still be streetable.  It was still ultimately an effort to cap power/weight.

[Soup DeVille]

For GM, it was a safety concern and not making cars dangerously powerful.  With most of their engines making similar specific output, it was effectively a self-imposed power/weight cap.

Yep, and when they realized that was no longer relevant, they ditched it.

[GoCougs]

Back in the '60s, GM had this idea that weight and displacement should be connected like that. Hence the 350 could only go into cars that weighed 3500 lbs or more, and only the big Caddies got 429s and 472s.

GM figured out that was short sighted and obsolete by the mid '70s.

For GM, it was a safety concern and not making cars dangerously powerful.  With most of their engines making similar specific output, it was effectively a self-imposed power/weight cap.

In general, post WWII up until the early '60s it was extreme market segmentation - want more power need to get the more expensive make, with each make having its own engines (i.e., you'd never see a Caddy 429 in an Impala). By the time the mid '60s rolled around that started to go out the door with say the GTO, L79 Chevy II/Nova and big block Chevelle/Malibu (which at that time was deemed a "senior compact"). By the time the 350 rolled around in '67 it all went out the door with the Camaro - the stronger/strongest engines were available up and down the model line - from the Nova to the Impala.

[12,000 RPM]

I am going to buy and build a Nova 396 on Forza tonight in honor of this thread.