Tesla

[AutobahnSHO]

I bought a cheap, tiny Sansa MP3 player maybe 7 or 8 years ago.  $50 (cheaper than the cheapest iPod at the time and with 2x the storage capacity).  About the same physical size as an iPod Shuffle of the same vintage, but actually has a small LCD display with song title, artist, etc.  Even has (limited) onboard playlist building capability.  Couple of gigs of music storage.  Supports drag & drop.  What's Apple's excuse?  You're telling me a tech giant like Apple couldn't figure it out?  More like they want to force people to use iTunes, which gets people more integrated with and invested in the i-life.  Great way to retain customers; I can't knock the business sense there, but a huge turn-off to people who don't want to be tied down to a particular brand.

I still use my Sansa Clip 

I really don't like iTunes, it tries to do too much.

[Laconian]

I bought a cheap, tiny Sansa MP3 player maybe 7 or 8 years ago.  $50 (cheaper than the cheapest iPod at the time and with 2x the storage capacity).  About the same physical size as an iPod Shuffle of the same vintage, but actually has a small LCD display with song title, artist, etc.  Even has (limited) onboard playlist building capability.  Couple of gigs of music storage.  Supports drag & drop.  What's Apple's excuse?  You're telling me a tech giant like Apple couldn't figure it out?  More like they want to force people to use iTunes, which gets people more integrated with and invested in the i-life.  Great way to retain customers; I can't knock the business sense there, but a huge turn-off to people who don't want to be tied down to a particular brand.

iPod was HDD based. Very slow random access time, and energy intensive to use. It was higher density and a whole lot cheaper than flash though.

Once Apple's went solid state, the argument becomes moot - it's probably just the usual legacy baggage at that point. But back in 2001 (or whatever), it was a tradeoff that made sense for the performance characteristics of spinning disks.

[MX793]

iPod was HDD based. Very slow random access time, and energy intensive to use. It was higher density and a whole lot cheaper than flash though.

Once Apple's went solid state, the argument becomes moot - it's probably just the usual legacy baggage at that point. But back in 2001 (or whatever), it was a tradeoff that made sense for the performance characteristics of spinning disks.

Fair enough.  I was probably a little off on my timeframe of early 00s.  My first exposure to iPods and iTunes was probably more in the '05-'06 timeframe, at which point the flash drive Nano and Shuffle were out.

[2o6]

Remember when iRiver was a legit player in the scene?

[12,000 RPM]

I wouldn't exactly call iTunes circa early 2000s great UI.  What's Apple's aversion to being able to transfer MP3s from computer to device via drag & drop?

This was actually what took me out of the Apple universe. Well this and the fact that I could get a phone + SD card for cheaper than an Ipod touch. ITunes sucks. Wifey still hates it.

[Char]

I think Teslas are fucking trash. I had this conversation with my friends, most of which aren't car people, but instead 'tech guys'

The comments here about how the Teala's appeal and it's marketing is spot on -it isn't made for car people. It's heavy, can't do any real performance driving and can literally drive itself. Beyond being fast it's a cheaply built unreliable pos with a solid AC motor and shitty energy storage system.

These ugly pieces of shit are made for douche IPad hipsters with tight pants, beards and manicures. Total pussies basically.

The biggest problem with these epic soon to be shit boxes is planned obsolescence. Supposedly technology is moving so fast, I can't imagine what that means for nbattery technology and resale value on these cars. Who would want to buy a used car with degraded batteries and then pay to have them replaced? Especially when you coul have a brand new model that will do everything better? No one is talking about this... so what's the solution? Have people finance or lease a car every few years and have them at the mercy of the finance industry?
Do you want to buy an electric car (2 years old lets say) and then have to replace the battery pack to the tune of x thousands of dollars - and it's still the inferior technology that was developed 5 years ago (thinking product life cycle)?

While a new car is using better technology for long lasting batteries. Seems like batteries are dumb honestly, maybe fuel cells or capacitors hehehe.

When gas engines have pneumatic valves, and they get 40% boost in efficiency for the same cost as they are now, It's going to be a very hard argument to sell an electric car at that point.

[Char]

I'm half awake, pardon my grammar. This is a novelty car we are trying to force mainstream. It's also a piece of shit

[93JC]

There's obviously a lot more to a car than this, but the top of the line model literally beats everything in the world to 60 except the Porsche 918.

Right; that's precisely what I was waiting for someone to say. And that's all fine and dandy but like you said there's more to a car than that and by every other subjective measure, qualities I already remarked on earlier—steering, braking, interior and exterior assembly quality, fit and finish—Teslas cars are not particularly good. Especially in the rarefied atmosphere of top-of-the-line luxury sedans and SUVs that the Model S and Model X compete on price with.

0-60 in less than three seconds is cool, but only a Model S P100D with "Ludicrous mode" enabled will do that, and guess what? That car costs a hundred and ninety-five thousand dollars (Canadian). It better be amazing at that price, and other than the doodads and being able to rip off acceleration runs that fall just short of "going plaid"... it ain't that good!

I applaud Tesla for trying to bust through bullshit state legislation protecting the racket that dealerships have become. I think electric cars are a cool idea, and I've earmarked money for upgrading my property's electrical service to accommodate 50-100 A of future car charging capacity. I'm all for electric cars, I love the idea of spending 2¢/km on 'fuel' rather than 10 and the convenience of 'refuelling' at home. That said, I don't fucking like Teslas. Not because they're electric, because they're stupidly expensive (and let's stop pretending the average out-the-door cost of Model 3s isn't going to be closer to double that promised $35,000 (USD) starting price...), aren't built all that well, and I don't think I'll ever get past that atrocious giant iPad bullshit.

[Galaxy]

Who would want to buy a used car with degraded batteries and then pay to have them replaced?

That argument you also have with conventional cars with regards to the IC engine. Granted they last a long time now a days, but the whole drive train is something that often causes big bills on older cars. Electric engines? They will probably go 50 years with little wear.

I do agree that the battery equation is something the E-industry needs to settle.

[r0tor]

'Murica built an entire auto industry centered on cars that go fast in a straight line and couldnt turn, stop, or pass a gas station without having to fill up.

Tesla should be treated with complete nostalgic pride

[AutobahnSHO]

'Murica built an entire auto industry centered on cars that go fast in a straight line and couldnt turn, stop, or pass a gas station without having to fill up.

Tesla should be treated with complete nostalgic pride

[Submariner]

The apple analogy fits there too- Tesla drew out the non-car people to be interested in electric performance. Apple drew out all the non-geeks to think digital files for music was cool. There were better 'sounding' MP3 players on the market pre-iPod but most people wouldn't know it.

No.  Apple made holding 5,000 songs in your pocket easy.  Other MP3 players had terrible physical interfaces, UI, etc. 

[giant_mtb]

Just being able to abuse an HDD so much was astounding.

[AutobahnSHO]

No.  Apple made holding 5,000 songs in your pocket easy.  Other MP3 players had terrible physical interfaces, UI, etc. 

Only if you weren't a geek. And the iPod had tested and verified worse sound quality.

But I agreed already with your overall point

My dad had a Windows tablet computer in 2001. It was absolute garbage, the UI sucked and it took the iPad to show that big screens could be easy to use (and the iPhone before that). Apple single-handedly created giant markets out of bringing the people factor into technology.

[Laconian]

The 2000's was a decade of Microsoft trying, and failing, to cram Windows onto fucking everything.

[MX793]

The 2000's was a decade of Microsoft trying, and failing, to cram Windows onto fucking everything.

That period is still upon us.

[Galaxy]

That period is still upon us.

Although with Windows 10 the implementation is much better. That one can hook a projector, and keyboard to a phone and power up Excel can be useful in certain situations.

[12,000 RPM]

Yea I was going to say, they've succeeded... well to some degree, are Windows phones still a thing?

[Laconian]

Nope

[AutobahnSHO]

Yea I was going to say, they've succeeded... well to some degree, are Windows phones still a thing?

No, but Wimmer says he really liked his. I played around with the notion of getting one a little while ago when they were DIRT CHEAP

but....    no apps available.

[veeman]

Recent photos of the model 3 including interior:

http://imgur.com/a/zhvq8

Car looks fantastic.  I think I'll put down a deposit later this week for one.  My Camry lease will be over in 3 years and a model 3 would be a great replacement.  Car should be ready in 3 years too. 

[2o6]

that interior still seems very unsafe. It would cost very little for them to put a screen repeater in front of the steering wheel for MPH and state of charge. That screen is mounted too low for anyone to safely see speed, while driving.

[Cookie Monster]

that interior still seems very unsafe. It would cost very little for them to put a screen repeater in front of the steering wheel for MPH and state of charge. That screen is mounted too low for anyone to safely see speed, while driving.

How can you tell, without ever having sat in the car?


Those pics were taken in San Jose, at the top of one of the most fun (but sketchy) roads around - Mt. Hamilton observatory.

[Galaxy]

that interior still seems very unsafe. It would cost very little for them to put a screen repeater in front of the steering wheel for MPH and state of charge. That screen is mounted too low for anyone to safely see speed, while driving.

Does it have a HUD? In that case I could see not having a display in front of the driver, but otherwise, yeah Mini thankfully gave up on that.

[2o6]

Does it have a HUD? In that case I could see not having a display in front of the driver, but otherwise, yeah Mini thankfully gave up on that.

Nope. No HUD.

[MX793]

Centrally mounted gauges/instruments can be done effectively (see:. Toyota Prius), but they need to be mounted high and far enough forward so that they are in the driver's peripheral vision.  That big screen looks too low and too close to do that.

[2o6]

Centrally mounted gauges/instruments can be done effectively (see:. Toyota Prius), but they need to be mounted high and far enough forward so that they are in the driver's peripheral vision.  That big screen looks too low and too close to do that.

also its jumbled in with a lot of other information

[Soup DeVille]

also its jumbled in with a lot of other information

I have to imagine it will be customizable before long.

[r0tor]

Are we all forgetting that Tesla would rather not even have a steering wheel in the car if they could?  Most driving is going to be intended to be done autonomously.

[Galaxy]

Most driving is going to be intended to be done autonomously.

The Model3 has much less autonomous functionality as standard compred to the X, and S.