Tesla

[giant_mtb]

So are the 2016 projects past their deadlines?   Fail to meet specs?  Nobody on the internet knows...

Would be nice to see the actual memo.

[MrH]

They wouldn't have paid them already if they didn't fulfill their end of the contract...

[MX793]

I've been reading conflicting accounts.  Some say Tesla is asking for retroactive discounts.  Others say they are asking for money back from incomplete projects, as though they've suspended/cancelled the projects and are asking for the balance of incomplete funded work to be refunded.

[r0tor]

https://electrek.co/2018/07/24/tesla-troll-short-doxxed-oil-industry-musk-calls-boss/

This will only get more entertaining

[12,000 RPM]

https://electrek.co/2018/07/24/tesla-troll-short-doxxed-oil-industry-musk-calls-boss/

This will only get more entertaining

When they go low you go lower

"He started it" said the 9 year old

[MrH]

As if Tesla has any effect whatsoever on the oil industry. Tesla represents a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the auto industry which represents just a portion of oil in total.

Elon Musk is a piece of shit. His cult is even worse. And Electrek is the cult's PR firm.

[Char]

As if Tesla has any effect whatsoever on the oil industry. Tesla represents a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the auto industry which represents just a portion of oil in total.

Elon Musk is a piece of shit. His cult is even worse. And Electrek is the cult's PR firm.

110% this.

[r0tor]

As if Tesla has any effect whatsoever on the oil industry. Tesla represents a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the auto industry which represents just a portion of oil in total.

Elon Musk is a piece of shit. His cult is even worse. And Electrek is the cult's PR firm.

Tesla has everything to do with the oil industry.  50% of the oil industry is driven by gasoline.  A successful Tesla drives the auto industry towards electric vehicles (already in motion) and leaves the oil industry with a serious problem.

[MrH]

Tesla has everything to do with the oil industry.  50% of the oil industry is driven by gasoline.  A successful Tesla drives the auto industry towards electric vehicles (already in motion) and leaves the oil industry with a serious problem.

EVs are less than 1% of the market share. Any impact Tesla could possibly have on big oil is less than a rounding error to big oil. They wouldn't even get out of bed to mess with that, let alone start some massive and complex campaign to try and bring Tesla down. That's beyond stupid.

If anything, big oil is cheering Tesla on. Tesla will do more long term harm to EVs than anything.

[12,000 RPM]

Tesla has everything to do with the oil industry.  50% of the oil industry is driven by gasoline.  A successful Tesla drives the auto industry towards electric vehicles (already in motion) and leaves the oil industry with a serious problem.

Delusions of grandeur are dangerous

Much of Tesla and the EV market's success comes down to government subsidies. That's not real success, it's a cash transfer.

Scary thing for Musk is this WH/Congress will have nothing to do with a bailout- which is the right thing

Tesla needs new leadership and new money period. Often times the founders of companies are not the ones who should run them

[r0tor]

EVs are less than 1% of the market share. Any impact Tesla could possibly have on big oil is less than a rounding error to big oil. They wouldn't even get out of bed to mess with that, let alone start some massive and complex campaign to try and bring Tesla down. That's beyond stupid.

If anything, big oil is cheering Tesla on. Tesla will do more long term harm to EVs than anything.

Better check the expected electrified vehicle sales forecasts over the next 10 years

[Soup DeVille]

Yeah, so if its a big oil conspiracy, why aren't they going balls out on EVs made by real carmakers, who actually have the potential to make long term business viable EVs?

[Char]

Yeah, so if its a big oil conspiracy, why aren't they going balls out on EVs made by real carmakers, who actually have the potential to make long term business viable EVs?

First smart post I've seen from you in a while. And this is true - it's not viable for them because they sell on volume. Tesla products are niche vehicles, so they can sell at a higher price tag, despite not really doing anything better than a normal car.

[12,000 RPM]

Better check the expected electrified vehicle sales forecasts over the next 10 years

Of course... forecasts are never wrong

[MrH]

Better check the expected electrified vehicle sales forecasts over the next 10 years

Are those as accurate as Elon Musk's projections?  If so, I don't think Big Oil has anything to worry about

[r0tor]

Are those as accurate as Elon Musk's projections?  If so, I don't think Big Oil has anything to worry about

5 years away from all models from all car makers offering a full EV or at least hybrid version
https://mashable.com/2017/10/03/electric-car-development-plans-ford-gm/

We are trending to 25% of new car sales being fully electric by 2030.

Big oil's only hope is Tesla fails and brings down EVs with it.

[r0tor]

Yeah, so if its a big oil conspiracy, why aren't they going balls out on EVs made by real carmakers, who actually have the potential to make long term business viable EVs?

What company is making electric vehicles mainstream desirable?  What company is the easiest to bring down currently?  Who really gives two shits if GM's bolt fails?

Do you really think the rest of the auto industry is really excited about spending billions of dollars on battery and electric motor manufacturing and design?  Hell no.  If Tesla folds, so will the plans of other oems. 

[giant_mtb]

Why isn't Big Oil investing heavily into EV tech (batteries, charging stations, etc.) to impede their impending doom?

Or are they?

[CaminoRacer]

Why isn't Big Oil investing heavily into EV tech (batteries, charging stations, etc.) to impede their impending doom?

Or are they?

They're more interested in the energy side of things, not the consumer side.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/01/20/royal-dutch-shell-joining-the-clean-energy-bandwag.aspx

[giant_mtb]

They're more interested in the energy side of things, not the consumer side.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/01/20/royal-dutch-shell-joining-the-clean-energy-bandwag.aspx

I suppose that makes more sense.  Good.

[12,000 RPM]

Do you really think the rest of the auto industry is really excited about spending billions of dollars on battery and electric motor manufacturing and design? 

They're not excited, but they're on board. You have to be if you want to sell cars in China, and to a lesser extent the EU

Also not sure where you got that 25% figure from, unless you are speaking globally, which comes back to China. In the US, a ~15-17M market, EVs are growing at about 20K sales a year. From the 199K they are at now, that will put them at a whopping ~460K units, or 3.1%. I think your projection might have missed a decimal point somewhere.

[r0tor]

One of a half million links on Google - shrug-
https://insideevs.com/bloomberg-new-energy-finance-increased-plug-ins-global-share-forecast-to-54-by-2040/

[12,000 RPM]

One of a half million links on Google - shrug-
https://insideevs.com/bloomberg-new-energy-finance-increased-plug-ins-global-share-forecast-to-54-by-2040/

Did you read your own link lmao

Given the fact they needed to make an adjustment of ~50% after just a year, we aren't sure how much stock one can put into a long term report (despite the mildly amusing disclaimer of "detailed analysis" – see below) with that much short term margin of error, but....moving on.

And for this to happen, it can't all hinge on Tesla's success. Nobody... NOBODY.... is waiting for Tesla before they move to plant a flag and grab EV market share

[GoCougs]

The fact remains that automakers can't make money producing EVs, and even than an EV equivalent to a Civic or Camcord is roughly 1.5-2x the cost, which is a catastrophe in the making (= escalating government subsidies). Automakers are diving in the hopes that subsidies continue and escalate, but that is nothing to hang your hat on. Left to market devices appreciable EV market share will not happen in the foreseeable future.

[ChrisV]

Are those as accurate as Elon Musk's projections?  If so, I don't think Big Oil has anything to worry about

So long as Big Oil continues to get billions in gvt subsidies and tax breaks itself, no, they don't have anything to worry about.

We need to get off Big Oil for basic transportation, drop demand so that we can reduce or even eliminate oil imports.

[r0tor]

Did you read your own link lmao

And for this to happen, it can't all hinge on Tesla's success. Nobody... NOBODY.... is waiting for Tesla before they move to plant a flag and grab EV market share

Try reading the other half million projections by everyone from OPEC to oil companies to auto analysts to Wall Street... They are all the same -shrug-


Your last comment is interesting.  Tesla did not exactly do anything ground breaking with the Model S except use fairly existing tech and package it into something actually attractive .  Why did no other OEM do this?  Influences from the outside or unwillingness because success would require them to invest heavily in battery and electric motor tech?   

[r0tor]

The fact remains that automakers can't make money producing EVs, and even than an EV equivalent to a Civic or Camcord is roughly 1.5-2x the cost, which is a catastrophe in the making (= escalating government subsidies). Automakers are diving in the hopes that subsidies continue and escalate, but that is nothing to hang your hat on. Left to market devices appreciable EV market share will not happen in the foreseeable future.

Tesla is making money on the 3, S, and X

[MX793]

Tesla is making money on the 3, S, and X

Obviously not if the company is hemorrhaging money.

[Soup DeVille]

Tesla is making money on the 3, S, and X

Why are they losing money then?

[12,000 RPM]

Try reading the other half million projections by everyone from OPEC to oil companies to auto analysts to Wall Street... They are all the same -shrug-

They are all the same? They all revised their projections by 50% on the same day? Post one that matches up to either data set

Your last comment is interesting.  Tesla did not exactly do anything ground breaking with the Model S except use fairly existing tech and package it into something actually attractive .  Why did no other OEM do this?  Influences from the outside or unwillingness because success would require them to invest heavily in battery and electric motor tech?

I agree that Tesla's magic is in how good the Model S looks, and the ugliness/mundaneness of mainstream offerings is a turn off, for me at least.

The notion that mainstream OEMs would intentionally hamstring expensive cars they'd like to sell is ridiculous. A more logical answer is they are playing it safe and going for broad appeal over sex appeal (Chevy Bolt) or they just don't have the cash to build a brand new EV only platform (everyone else). And OEMs ARE starting to inject some sex into their EVs (Porsche Taycan) now that there's enough demand to afford them that opportunity.