Tesla

[Rich]

The transition to EVs is not dictated by the change in price of oil yesterday to today.  It's the price of oil vs the price of the commodities needed to make batteries.  Unfortunately, those have also erupted in price.

I know the price of battery materials is much higher than oil, but batteries are bought once every 10 years or so, while gas (oil) is needed more often

[MrH]

Yeah, but if it drives EV prices up 30%, people will eat higher gas prices for longer.

[NomisR]

Not to mention with the country trying to transition away from Nuclear, and the price increase on fossil fuel, it'll only drive up electricity cost with increase demand.

[Morris Minor]

The transition to EVs is not dictated by the change in price of oil yesterday to today.  It's the price of oil vs the price of the commodities needed to make batteries.  Unfortunately, those have also erupted in price.

The spike in commodity pricing is the largest seen in recorded history.  Not good.

The transition is dictated by government policies on CO2 emissions and the resulting incentives, perverse & otherwise. Also the citizenry's perceptions of both the CO2 problem & the relative merits of EVs in their own right.
Of course there's nothing like a massive spike in commodity prices to test ideals vs expedience.
My view is that we should put the ideals on hold, take the gloves off, & drill pump & burn in our own backyards, and wherever else... with the specific goal of crippling & maiming Russia. An emergency wartime measure.

[MrH]

You can't flex capacity that fast.

Stopping the Keystone pipeline was beyond stupid.  It doesn't incentivize EV investment.  It just pushes you into the arms of Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc.

[NomisR]

The transition is dictated by government policies on CO2 emissions and the resulting incentives, perverse & otherwise. Also the citizenry's perceptions of both the CO2 problem & the relative merits of EVs in their own right.
Of course there's nothing like a massive spike in commodity prices to test ideals vs expedience.
My view is that we should put the ideals on hold, take the gloves off, & drill pump & burn in our own backyards, and wherever else... with the specific goal of crippling & maiming Russia. An emergency wartime measure.

And the problem with our energy policy, is that we're doing all this stuff to cut use, but we have countries like China, India and Russia telling us that they're not going to follow it.  Also they're increasing their emissions by building more coal power plants.

https://time.com/6090732/china-coal-power-plants-emissions/

[Morris Minor]

You can't flex capacity that fast.

Stopping the Keystone pipeline was beyond stupid.  It doesn't incentivize EV investment.  It just pushes you into the arms of Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc.

Agreed. Though in normal times a lot of capacity would come on stream fairly quickly as prices rise. What's different now is that this has caught us as the ball is rolling on the transition to renewables. So the regulatory environment, permitting & leasing, is not favorable to drilling & pumping. Big Oil is on a lot of enemies lists.

[r0tor]

You can't flex capacity that fast.

Stopping the Keystone pipeline was beyond stupid.  It doesn't incentivize EV investment.  It just pushes you into the arms of Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc.

Keystone pipeline was just another multibillion dollar investment to keep the country addicted to oil - and right into the arms of Russia/Iran/SA

[r0tor]

I know the price of battery materials is much higher than oil, but batteries are bought once every 10 years or so, while gas (oil) is needed more often

There are also a dozen different battery chemistries out there... So materials can shift when one becomes pricey

[GoCougs]

Keystone pipeline was just another multibillion dollar investment to keep the country addicted to oil - and right into the arms of Russia/Iran/SA

The pipeline's explicit intent was to increase North American production and distribution thereby reducing US dependence on foreign oil.

US oil consumption  - airline travel, plastics, rail freight, shipping, raw material processing, home heating, even the military - will define your existence for the rest of your days even 100% absent ICE-powered road transportation.

[SJ_GTI]

The pipeline's explicit intent was to increase North American production and distribution thereby reducing US dependence on foreign oil.

US oil consumption  - airline travel, plastics, rail freight, shipping, raw material processing, home heating, even the military - will define your existence for the rest of your days even 100% absent ICE-powered road transportation.

A pipeline doesn't produce oil, it just transports it more efficiently than rail/trucks.

[r0tor]

The pipeline's explicit intent was to increase North American production and distribution thereby reducing US dependence on foreign oil.

US oil consumption  - airline travel, plastics, rail freight, shipping, raw material processing, home heating, even the military - will define your existence for the rest of your days even 100% absent ICE-powered road transportation.

It is a massive investment (and stealing of property) in infrastructure that ensures the US continues to rely on oil for the next 30+ years.  Take the mega billions, invest it in renewables, and suddenly there is no more congestion on the pipelines AND the country moves close to real energy independence.

[CaminoRacer]

A pipeline doesn't produce oil, it just transports it more efficiently than rail/trucks.

And Canadian oil is still foreign

[FoMoJo]

And Canadian oil is still foreign

Yes, but we're not planning on invading anyone so you wouldn't have to boycott us.

[GoCougs]

Oh, boy, you guys need to try much harder than this. MUCH harder.

[r0tor]

Oh, boy, you guys need to try much harder than this. MUCH harder.

Oh please, we really need to subsidize oil even more?

[CaminoRacer]

If there's anything I've learn on this forum in this past decade, it's that very little effort should be spent in arguments.

But I say double the price of gas. It'll still probably be cheaper than it should be when you account for the cost of negative externalities.

[NomisR]

Oh please, we really need to subsidize oil even more?

You really need to stop calling tax breaks, "subsidies"...  the only way it would be a subsidy is if government owns all our income and they are only allowing us to keep what we earn..

Well i mean it's literally what they're doing but don't break that illusion for me just yet.. let me keep believing the money that I earn is mine.. just like the property that I bought it mine and not the property of the governement that I pay rent to annually..

[Morris Minor]

One of the photo club members here just replaced her lovely Cayenne with a 2022 (i.e. refreshed) Model X. I'm amazed she got hold of one. Hubby drives an Evora GT among others.

[Morris Minor]

Tesla Berlin opened today: physically their smallest factory (about 60% the size of the ones in Austin & Shanghai, & about 75% that of Fremont). 500k unit nominal capacity, but starting slow on one shift, mostly model Ys.

[Laconian]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-zeSEOanvI

[NomisR]

It's a rental too.

[MrH]

Don't give that idiot any more views.

[Morris Minor]

Just drove my neighbor's new Fremont-built Model 3 LR. Paint is fine. Panel gaps.... umm... three stars out of five... 'bout the same as the 2018 CR-V I had.
It was amazing - like nothing else I've experienced.

I could see getting a Texas-built Y sometime next year to replace the G37. I can also see why Tesla doesn't bother advertising; neighbors sell these things to neighbors. They're beginning to proliferate here.

The CX-5 seemed so lame & frenetic when I got back into it. Having to use a brake pedal... haha.

[Laconian]

I'd wait for a test of the Hyundai/Kia siblings before making a decision.

[Morris Minor]

Yep. The financial plan doesn't allow for the G37 replacement before next year, by which time the EV landscape will look different.

I can see why owners burn through tires. Aside from the heavy weight they carry - the acceleration loads are insane unless drivers restrain themselves. Addictive.

[afty]

We did a weekend trip up to Santa Rosa and back. 235 miles used 84% of my battery. Will cost about $15 in electricity. If we had driven the Sorento, it would have been $70 worth of gas.

[NomisR]

We did a weekend trip up to Santa Rosa and back. 235 miles used 84% of my battery. Will cost about $15 in electricity. If we had driven the Sorento, it would have been $70 worth of gas.

had me look at the cost of my trip yesterday to Carlsbad which was about $140 miles roundtrip.. it was about $9, not too bad compared to the trip down to the desert in SD last week in the GX which costs $80. 

[AutobahnSHO]

Color me completely one hundred percent unsurprised:
https://carbuzz.com/news/canceled-tesla-cybertruck-is-dead

[Soup DeVille]

Color me completely one hundred percent unsurprised:
https://carbuzz.com/news/canceled-tesla-cybertruck-is-dead

Posted in "April Fool's Day," and the last sentence in the article...