Tesla

[Morris Minor]

Correct, and that's why Tesla AutoPilot doesn't work, and will never work, as an autonomous driving suite (same as any other "autonomous" driving suite).

Do you need a map when you drive on a road sight unseen?

[GoCougs]

Do you need a map when you drive on a road sight unseen?

No, but then again, despite being AT BEST an average individual, and perhaps even below average, I have more sensory interpretation/interpolation/personification power than all of human history's computer processing power combined.

The only way legit autonomous driving works is by decreasing the need for said sensory processing - from homogenizing travel way design to extreme control over the right of way (i.e., esp. preventing non-vehicles (bikes, people, etc.) from getting in the way) to centralized traffic control. This is the only way trains and planes work en mass, and the same it will be with autonomous driving.

[giant_mtb]

We all know how amazing public transportation is. Can't wait for that to be required/the norm when the Autonomous EV World Takeover is complete. That's basically the end goal...it just turns into "individual" public transportation.

[r0tor]

The end goal is the movie WALL-E where humans just float around with screens (advertising) in front of their face

[giant_mtb]

The end goal is the movie WALL-E where humans just float around with screens (advertising) in front of their face

Wall-E and Idiocracy combined.

[Morris Minor]

No, but then again, despite being AT BEST an average individual, and perhaps even below average, I have more sensory interpretation/interpolation/personification power than all of human history's computer processing power combined.

The only way legit autonomous driving works is by decreasing the need for said sensory processing - from homogenizing travel way design to extreme control over the right of way (i.e., esp. preventing non-vehicles (bikes, people, etc.) from getting in the way) to centralized traffic control. This is the only way trains and planes work en mass, and the same it will be with autonomous driving.

From what I can see, the most recent beta of FSD is at the level of a much-improved but hesitant learner driver. Fine 95% of the time but still 5% OMG WTF.
The juiced-up autopilot is best of breed & I'd pay for it - just like I'd pay for the tech package on an ICE car.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Wall-E and Idiocracy combined.

Both of these films are historical documents sent from the future.

[GoCougs]

We all know how amazing public transportation is. Can't wait for that to be required/the norm when the Autonomous EV World Takeover is complete. That's basically the end goal...it just turns into "individual" public transportation.

Beyond the infrastructure and government control needed, it could be killed simply because I'm not convinced that WtP want it. Sure, it could be a cool parlor trick, but if one is to take on the burden of buying and maintaining a personal vehicle, why not take on the burden of properly using it? Why subordinate the major (most) to fancy of a few?

[Soup DeVille]

Wall-E and Idiocracy combined.

Wall-E is incredibly dark with the merest veneer of DisneyCute smeared on top. You gotta watch the end credits to understand.

Humanity ends up being slaves for the robots.

[giant_mtb]

Wall-E is incredibly dark with the merest veneer of DisneyCute smeared on top. You gotta watch the end credits to understand.

Humanity ends up being slaves for the robots.

I need to give it another viewing. Only seen it once years ago.

[AutobahnSHO]

Beyond the infrastructure and government control needed, it could be killed simply because I'm not convinced that WtP want it. Sure, it could be a cool parlor trick, but if one is to take on the burden of buying and maintaining a personal vehicle, why not take on the burden of properly using it? Why subordinate the major (most) to fancy of a few?

A ton of people just want to get somewhere WHEN they want it. They don't want to have to share a vehicle with other people (automated taxis). They would rather have complete control over when and where they go- but not have to do the driving.

[giant_mtb]

A ton of people just want to get somewhere WHEN they want it. They don't want to have to share a vehicle with other people (automated taxis). They would rather have complete control over when and where they go- but not have to do the driving.

Such ideal things only make sense in very urban places (NYC, etc) where people generally don't want or need to own a vehicle to begin with so they stick to taxis/Uber anyways.

[AutobahnSHO]

Such ideal things only make sense in very urban places (NYC, etc) where people generally don't want or need to own a vehicle to begin with so they stick to taxis/Uber anyways.

Most people who ride the bus or train would gladly do a rideshare if they could afford it every trip. The Uberers would love to have a car if it wasn't so much expense and burden. Some have cars to drive out of the city. of course some have personal drivers...

The "private driver" concept would spread much more if they didn't have to pay someone to drive. Computer driving cars are in all the sci-fi because it just makes sense.

But just like my dad told me in 1982 that my hybrid car idea wouldn't work because the regeneration technology wasn't efficient enough, we will get there with self-driving someday........

[Morris Minor]

Written English is obviously not this guy's strong point but a fairly decent explanation of the idea of occupancy networks.
https://www.thinkautonomous.ai/blog/occupancy-networks/

[Laconian]

Classifiers based on spatial data? Doesn't that suffer from GIGO at the horizon? The author even says that distant objects only have two or three pixels of resolution.

[GoCougs]

Classifiers based on spatial data? Doesn't that suffer from GIGO at the horizon? The author even says that distant objects only have two or three pixels of resolution.

Seems to me to be dependent how close the horizon is IRL; i.e., if the object is far enough away IRL low resolution doesn't matter.

Overall I get what they're doing - classifying really, instead of processing, which focuses on things that matter (big objects, esp. moving) but not on the things that don't.

Overall the system is still infinitely limited WRT to human wetware.

[Laconian]

The Tesla doesn't seem to do well when lanes aren't well marked.
7 disengagements in 20 miles.

[GoCougs]

Such ideal things only make sense in very urban places (NYC, etc) where people generally don't want or need to own a vehicle to begin with so they stick to taxis/Uber anyways.

Driving culture in the USA is about autonomy and choice. WRT urban travel, "autonomous" driving was solved ~120 years ago. Plus, the epic PR train wreck WRT "Autopilot" doesn't help, either.

[Morris Minor]

The Tesla doesn't seem to do well when lanes aren't well marked.
7 disengagements in 20 miles.

Which beta is that? e.g. I'd heard the latest does really well with unprotected lefts. They even named the issue after the guy who was complaining the builds could never handle the one in his neighborhood.

[Morris Minor]

Overview from the head of their autopilot team on occupancy networks.
https://twitter.com/aelluswamy/status/1561151333054365696

[MrH]

Which beta is that? e.g. I'd heard the latest does really well with unprotected lefts. They even named the issue after the guy who was complaining the builds could never handle the one in his neighborhood.

Does it matter?  7 disengagements in 20 miles is light years away from the competition.

[Morris Minor]

Another unprotected left. As an experienced driver I would not even attempt this except in super light traffic. My MO when it's this dangerous is to turn right. Get into the suicide lane, make a left somewhere and then take a right from there... to finally head in the actual direction I want to go.

https://youtu.be/iheSI0UpQg8

[Laconian]

Does it matter?  7 disengagements in 20 miles is light years away from the competition.

Waymo reports 1 per 7200 miles. LOL

I don't understand why we ought to withold judgment on a "beta" product if it's already in the wild and endangering the public. It's reckless. Remember the shit Toyota went through when a few dozen Priuses experienced unwanted acceleration? Why is Tesla let off the hook, then?

[GoCougs]

Waymo reports 1 per 7200 miles. LOL

I don't understand why we ought to withold judgment on a "beta" product if it's already in the wild and endangering the public. It's reckless. Remember the shit Toyota went through when a few dozen Priuses experienced unwanted acceleration? Why is Tesla let off the hook, then?

Waymo is "mapped" pseudo autonomous driving though, not legit autonomous driving (and IME/O, the only way it will ever get close to working.)

Tesla's off the hook (not only WRT Autopilot, but anything from business/accounting shins to the dubious environmental advantage of EVs to grossly missed price and delivery targets) because WtP are beyond desperate for a Hero story and his next Next Big Thing. There's usually one a decade or so, and 2010s were more than bereft after Big Tech burned out.

[AutobahnSHO]

The best would be mapping + "autonomous" (cameras & radar) + comms between vehicles. If each of them tell the others what they are doing, they would all be able to mesh & sync better.

[MrH]

Waymo is "mapped" pseudo autonomous driving though, not legit autonomous driving (and IME/O, the only way it will ever get close to working.)

Tesla's off the hook (not only WRT Autopilot, but anything from business/accounting shins to the dubious environmental advantage of EVs to grossly missed price and delivery targets) because WtP are beyond desperate for a Hero story and his next Next Big Thing. There's usually one a decade or so, and 2010s were more than bereft after Big Tech burned out.

Why is "mapped" pseudo autonomous driving, but plowing into things every few miles like Tesla isn't?  I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.  The cars driving without drivers isn't autonomous, but the car that promises to one day work and disengages every mile or two is autonomous?

[GoCougs]

Why is "mapped" pseudo autonomous driving, but plowing into things every few miles like Tesla isn't?  I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.  The cars driving without drivers isn't autonomous, but the car that promises to one day work and disengages every mile or two is autonomous?

Because Waymo knows its driving suite isn't legit autonomous and Tesla pretends Autopilot is.

[Morris Minor]

Because Waymo knows its driving suite isn't legit autonomous and Tesla pretends Autopilot is.

Tesla has never claimed Autopilot to be autonomous. It's ADAS, pretty good ADAS but still ADAS.

[Morris Minor]

Why is "mapped" pseudo autonomous driving, but plowing into things every few miles like Tesla isn't?  I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.  The cars driving without drivers isn't autonomous, but the car that promises to one day work and disengages every mile or two is autonomous?

I can drive autonomously without a map and I'm sure everyone else here can too. Maps are nice to have but no way should they ever be a prerequisite for anyone's or anything's autonomy.

[MrH]

Tesla has never claimed Autopilot to be autonomous. It's ADAS, pretty good ADAS but still ADAS.

Well, except for the fraudulent video.  Except for all the parts where they do say it's autonomous, they've never claimed it to be autonomous