Tesla

[Tave]

We haven't been able to design any mechanical systems to perfection. Brakes fail. Throttles fail. Tires fail. Airbags and seatbelts fail. Just because it happens 0.00000001% of the time doesn't mean we abandon all progress and scrap driving for horses. Oh geez, a horse kicked a guy, guess it's back to walking.

That's not even touching the legion of morons out there driving obliterated or like complete douchebags.

I'm not saying it's perfect by any means, but as r0tor said, it's a pretty good effort on at least trying to think outside the box.

[CaminoRacer]

But it's unnecessary. If Tesla toned it down and made kick-ass electric car without all the silly, unnecessary, intentional design flaws, I'd be all for it. They're trying to do too much and it could be their downfall.

[Payman]

But it's unnecessary. If Tesla toned it down and made kick-ass electric car without all the silly, unnecessary, intentional design flaws, I'd be all for it. They're trying to do too much and it could be their downfall.

Like the Model X... too much innovation in one design. With the Model 3, they should at least have an analog gauge cluster, even just a speedo, as backup in front of the driver. Even then though, I still see no reason to buy this over a Bolt.

[2o6]

A center screen isn't innovative tho.

[Laconian]

Like the Model X... too much innovation in one design. With the Model 3, they should at least have an analog gauge cluster, even just a speedo, as backup in front of the driver. Even then though, I still see no reason to buy this over a Bolt.

Yup. The Bolt gets a lot right in the drivetrain department and the interior manages to be futuristic but conventional/ergonomic where it matters.

[2o6]

We haven't been able to design any mechanical systems to perfection. Brakes fail. Throttles fail. Tires fail. Airbags and seatbelts fail. Just because it happens 0.00000001% of the time doesn't mean we abandon all progress and scrap driving for horses. Oh geez, a horse kicked a guy, guess it's back to walking.

That's not even touching the legion of morons out there driving obliterated or like complete douchebags.

I'm not saying it's perfect by any means, but as r0tor said, it's a pretty good effort on at least trying to think outside the box.

But when you set up a system that was much different than before for zero good reason, that could be dangerous.


A "horse kicking a man" isn't the same as "You should put total trust in our software, it never fails!". With the projected goals of 250K cars on the road in a very short amount of time, that "small chance" turns into a not insignificant number of people on the road.




I don't understand how you guys fail to see my point here....

[2o6]

The problem I see is that because your eyes are so far away from the road, and so many key functions are relegated to that screen, if it fails (which it will) the window of the driver trying to troubleshoot on the fly and, say, driving the damn vehicle - is dangerous. Client tries to adjust wiper speed or check speed, or something and the damn thing freezes. Because you have to take your eyes so far away from the road, you're already in a much worse position than someone driving a car with more conventional instruments.

Yes, in theory automatic braking etc should stop you, but what if they don't? The conditions for automatic braking aren't foolproof.

[r0tor]

What if they fail to turn on for some reason? We've already had one death directly due to autopilot's inability to determine the daylight sky to the side of a tractor trailer. There have been other videos of autopilot being unclear on lane markings and drifting into another lane.



It's bad design.

In 2015, 10 people died every day from distracted driving.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/distracted-driving

Why do we here so much about 1 Tesla death?  It's only because of massive amounts of money at stake in Tesla stock and the Big 3.

Hell yesterday I saw an attack piece on Model 3 build quality because someone posted a picture of a 3 that looked like it was physically beat to shit by a vandal and called Tesla out on it.  Not surprisingly, it was written by a stock market player.

[2o6]

 

Lord.

People texting while driving is not the same as a manufacturer putting a flawed product out that could potentially harm its user.

[r0tor]

End result is the same.  It's people doing everything else except having their eyes on the road.  At least in the 3, the car will alert and stop before plowing into someone (at a minimum if they don't have the autonomy package).

[Tave]

But when you set up a system that was much different than before for zero good reason, that could be dangerous.


A "horse kicking a man" isn't the same as "You should put total trust in our software, it never fails!". With the projected goals of 250K cars on the road in a very short amount of time, that "small chance" turns into a not insignificant number of people on the road.




I don't understand how you guys fail to see my point here....

It's not for zero reason. Their ability to integrate so much content so seamlessly into their infotainment command module is both a huge selling point as well as one of the reasons why they can produce the car at a competitive price. It also fascilitates their unique and forward-looking approach to periodic updates, which are almost completely absent from every other marque. Not to mention it's way ahead of the curve in relation to the way consumers actually use consumer electronics. .

[Payman]

End result is the same.  It's people doing everything else except having their eyes on the road.  At least in the 3, the car will alert and stop before plowing into someone (at a minimum if they don't have the autonomy package).

The 3 requires the driver to look away from the road to a blinding screen, not just for nav or entertainment, but for everything. Still too early to tell for sure until there's some real world feedback, but from what I see so far this is a terrible and dangerous design. The car itself should never be the distraction. That's the thing you don't seem to grasp.

[Soup DeVille]

Yup. The Bolt gets a lot right in the drivetrain department and the interior manages to be futuristic but conventional/ergonomic where it matters.

The Bolt, being a GM design, will never get the cool points a Tesla does automatically by being a Tesla.

[ifcar]

It's not for zero reason. Their ability to integrate so much content so seamlessly into their infotainment command module is both a huge selling point as well as one of the reasons why they can produce the car at a competitive price. It also fascilitates their unique and forward-looking approach to periodic updates, which are almost completely absent from every other marque. Not to mention it's way ahead of the curve in relation to the way consumers actually use consumer electronics. .

Integrating content into an infotainment system is great -- but only if basic functions can be done some other way.

[Tave]

Integrating content into an infotainment system is great -- but only if basic functions can be done some other way.

Says who?

Eventually, voice command and autopilot will become so sophisticated that a lot of cars won't even have a steering wheel. In the meantime, Tesla gives you throttle, steer, brake and gear selection with dedicated toggles, and all the important auxiliary functions on a one-touch, dedicated virtual button on the central screen. It may be an unfinished, intermediate stopgap, but we can't deem it a fail until we have more data. Clearly this is the direction the industry is headed, and Tesla still appears to be way ahead of the curve.

[ifcar]

Says who?

Eventually, voice command and autopilot will become so sophisticated that a lot of cars won't even have a steering wheel. In the meantime, Tesla gives you throttle, steer, brake and gear selection with dedicated toggles, and all the important auxiliary functions on a one-touch, dedicated virtual button on the central screen. It may be an unfinished, intermediate stopgap, but we can't deem it a fail until we have more data. Clearly this is the direction the industry is headed, and Tesla still appears to be way ahead of the curve.

Says common sense. it's quicker to twist a volume knob than locate and operate the volume setting within a big screen, or say slowly and clearly: "SET VOLUME TO LEVEL 4."

[mzziaz]

The Bolt, being a GM design, will never get the cool points a Tesla does automatically by being a Tesla.

More of a joint effort by LG and GM. The digital user interface is all LG, actually.

[12,000 RPM]

End result is the same.  It's people doing everything else except having their eyes on the road.  At least in the 3, the car will alert and stop before plowing into someone (at a minimum if they don't have the autonomy package).

The 3 wouldn't have to alert and stop you from plowing into someone if it didn't take your eyes off the road in the first place. Distracted driving used to be pure user error- now with shit UI like this it's embedded into the design. How is this progress? What is wrong with the physical controls we have used for the last 50+ years?

[12,000 RPM]

Says who?

Eventually, voice command and autopilot will become so sophisticated that a lot of cars won't even have a steering wheel. In the meantime, Tesla gives you throttle, steer, brake and gear selection with dedicated toggles, and all the important auxiliary functions on a one-touch, dedicated virtual button on the central screen. It may be an unfinished, intermediate stopgap, but we can't deem it a fail until we have more data. Clearly this is the direction the industry is headed, and Tesla still appears to be way ahead of the curve.

We don't need more data to know that distracted driving is bad... and these controls will definitely prompt that.

Voice command is also a red herring, because nobody has time to sit and learn all those commands, especially if they vary from car to car. Plus you can't always use it... for example if you have a crying baby in the car, or are in a heavy rainstorm, or stuck near an ambulance in traffic, or any range of other background noises that would obscure your voice. By contrast there is absolutely nothing that can keep you from hitting a physical wiper stalk. This touch screen bullshit is creating problems rather than solutions.

[giant_mtb]

The whole "automatic braking will prevent you from running into shit when you're distracted" argument is stupid...it's just rewarding stupidity in machine operation.

[MX793]

We don't need more data to know that distracted driving is bad... and these controls will definitely prompt that.

Voice command is also a red herring, because nobody has time to sit and learn all those commands, especially if they vary from car to car. Plus you can't always use it... for example if you have a crying baby in the car, or are in a heavy rainstorm, or stuck near an ambulance in traffic, or any range of other background noises that would obscure your voice. By contrast there is absolutely nothing that can keep you from hitting a physical wiper stalk. This touch screen bullshit is creating problems rather than solutions.

I've never had an issue with background noise and voice commands in my cars that have had it.  I've had the windows fully down, traveling at highway speed (so maximum air buffeting in the cabin) and it still recognized the commands.

[Char]

So we all agree this car is a fucking turd?

Good.

And please, spare me the hypotheticals on this shit stain. I don't care what you predict cars will be in x years, we are talking now. It's a pile of fucking shit, and anyone who buys one is...not a smart consumer.

[2o6]

So we all agree this car is a fucking turd?

Good.

And please, spare me the hypotheticals on this shit stain. I don't care what you predict cars will be in x years, we are talking now. It's a pile of fucking shit, and anyone who buys one is...not a smart consumer.

[giant_mtb]

This is dangerous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GdyONu4Z3w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe-X07V0iaw

[AutobahnSHO]

this is pretty impressive to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--xITOqlBCM

[giant_mtb]

Half of those were "pay attention" things.  omg a deer?  Thank GOD for Tesla.

[Soup DeVille]

Autonomy has come a long way. Sometimes, it's spooky how good it is.

Other times, it drives into trailers at full speed.

[Raza]

Half of those were "pay attention" things.  omg a deer?  Thank GOD for Tesla.

It's sad that this tech is being hailed as a miracle when the solution is just to pay fucking attention. But our relationship to the automobile has degraded to being worse than our relationship with the gun--at least we acknowledge that guns are dangerous and need to be handled with care. Even ads for this kind of technology not only address distracted driving, but the tone often promotes it. Not paying attention to the 4,000 pound missile filled with flammable liquids and your family's lives in it? Don't worry, we've got you. Kylie Jenner might be pregnant. That's more important.

[Char]

I need an emoji that conveys how little I care about you and your opinion.  is the best I can do.

[2o6]

I need an emoji that conveys how little I care about you and your opinion.  is the best I can do.

It's one of the lease thought out shits out here yet