Tesla

[Char]

Whoahhhh.  The only compliment I've given the thing is its range. Chill.

And considering range is one of the biggest hurdles for EVs...it's progress.

The 'You' was meant to be all encompassing to everyone willing to slob Musk's dong on this car.

[Morris Minor]

I'm not speaking on hypotheticals. Can you not make a point and speak on the objective merits? If you can't, I think we can all agree I'm correct and you live in a fucking pipe dream.

I think we can all agree that your rudeness is in inverse proportion to your ability to conduct a civilized discussion.

[Char]

I think we can all agree that your rudeness is in inverse proportion to your ability to conduct a civilized discussion.

Don't attack me, attack my argument.

Don't be upset that I'm willing to hold you accountable.

[Char]

The hype is because it's getting better and closer to a feasible car for everyone. The Teslas and Bolt are actual usable cars.

Getting better and BEING better are not the same.

[CaminoRacer]

Don't attack me, attack my argument.

Don't be upset that I'm willing to hold you accountable.

What, only you are allowed to attack people?

Getting better and BEING better are not the same.

There are quite a few ways that they are better than regular cars. Quick acceleration, good handling thanks to the weight distribution, lack of tailpipe emissions, etc.

I'd buy a Bolt tomorrow if I had a house and a real job.

[Char]

What, only you are allowed to attack people?

There are quite a few ways that they are better than regular cars. Quick acceleration, good handling thanks to the weight distribution, lack of tailpipe emissions, etc.

I'd buy a Bolt tomorrow if I had a house and a real job.

Who am I attacking?

Quick acceleration in comparison to what?
Good handling in comparison to what?
Zero emissions - ehhh, depends on where the power comes from.

[giant_mtb]

I could supply an Italian restaurant with all the sauce in this thread.

[AutobahnSHO]

I could supply an Italian restaurant with all the sauce in this thread.

[12,000 RPM]

Don't attack me, attack my argument.

Don't be upset that I'm willing to hold you accountable.

It's impossible to separate your arguments from you as you make it all so personal. You can't have a civil or respectful discussion, and then when you get back what you put out you play the victim card. SAD!

Who am I attacking?

Quick acceleration in comparison to what?

Most $35K cars... maybe all from 0-30.

Good handling in comparison to what?

ALL $35K cars outside of maybe the Miata/BRZ

Zero emissions - ehhh, depends on where the power comes from.

And in what way can any gas car achieve zero emissions?

You are so busy frothing at the mouth with hate you can't even decipher what the actual issues of this car are. It's not the concept, it's the execution

[Char]

It's impossible to separate your arguments from you as you make it all so personal. You can't have a civil or respectful discussion, and then when you get back what you put out you play the victim card. SAD!

Who did I attack? Me using a more abrasive tone isn't attacking anyone in particular.

Most $35K cars... maybe all from 0-30.

Let me guess, 'where people use it most' is what you're going to say - but most people aren't playing stoplight grand prix. Besides, most of my acceleration is on the highway for merging and overtaking.

ALL $35K cars outside of maybe the Miata/BRZ

Nah.

And in what way can any gas car achieve zero emissions?

Huh.

You are so busy frothing at the mouth with hate you can't even decipher what the actual issues of this car are. It's not the concept, it's the execution

The car does nothing better than a gas counterpart, and take a bunch of shortcuts in quality, ergonomics and appearance. Don't stop you from telling me I'm an asshole for pointing it out.

[Morris Minor]

\

What, only you are allowed to attack people?

Don't worry about it - an amusing and instructional glimpse into the world of Dunning-Kruger.

So I'm guessing we'll see that group of aspiring Tesla fan/enthusiasts who couldn't really afford a Tesla migrate from off-lease, and/or low-end Model Ss to the Model 3. So It will be interesting to see what happens to that Model S section of the market. I guess they deleted some of the the lower-sped Ss to give headroom to the 3.
Anecdote: A young couple where I used to work leased a new Model S 60 - they basically could not afford it & it did not make sense for them  - no need for a big luxury car, with limited range, and the payments that go with it. We all shook our heads, WTF to they need that for? But everyone went out to drool over the thing & get the free rides. And a couple more appeared in the parking lot a few weeks later. People just fall over themselves.

Then questions started coming up about the company providing chargers in the parking lot - "Hey, we're a green company, this will look good to customers."

[12,000 RPM]

Who did I attack? Me using a more abrasive tone isn't attacking anyone in particular.

Where did I say you attacked anybody? And you only use an abrasive tone because you think it will help mask the fact that you're wrong

After your complete capitulation on the whole VW hate thing it's obvious this whole tough guy act is a cry for help. I'm tired of it.

\Don't worry about it - an amusing and instructional glimpse into the world of Dunning-Kruger.

So I'm guessing we'll see that group of aspiring Tesla fan/enthusiasts who couldn't really afford a Tesla migrate from off-lease, and/or low-end Model Ss to the Model 3. So It will be interesting to see what happens to that Model S section of the market. I guess they deleted some of the the lower-sped Ss to give headroom to the 3.
Anecdote: A young couple where I used to work leased a new Model S 60 - they basically could not afford it & it did not make sense for them  - no need for a big luxury car, with limited range, and the payments that go with it. We all shook our heads, WTF to they need that for? But everyone went out to drool over the thing & get the free rides. And a couple more appeared in the parking lot a few weeks later. People just fall over themselves.

Then questions started coming up about the company providing chargers in the parking lot - "Hey, we're a green company, this will look good to customers."

It is nice to have nice things. We did not invite anyone to our apartment but we have people over the house all the time. I have also been taking people out to lunch since I got the G But it's not nice when you're a slave to those things financially. Tesla's ability to captivate is easily its biggest strength.

[Char]

Where did I say you attacked anybody?

YOU did not, but you were responding to my answer to another person who accused me of such.

And you only use an abrasive tone because you think it will help mask the fact that you're wrong

How can I be wrong when I'm objectively correct. I've repeated the same thing ad nausem for 5 pages now, and have yet to receive a respectable response.

After your complete capitulation on the whole VW hate thing it's obvious this whole tough guy act is a cry for help. I'm tired of it.

Shut up, seriously. I'm not here to entertain you.

It is nice to have nice things. We did not invite anyone to our apartment but we have people over the house all the time. I have also been taking people out to lunch since I got the G But it's not nice when you're a slave to those things financially. Tesla's ability to captivate is easily its biggest ONLY strength.

Fixed that for you.

[Char]

No one is arguing about that though (at least I'm not) I'm arguing about the tangible merits of this vehicle RIGHT NOW, not what it could be in 5-10 years, not what it represents, not how it impresses your friends. Tell me what it does NOW to deserve the hype.

I've been digging at this car for how many pages so far, and you have yet to come up with one reason - all that tells me is this car isn't ready for prime time. You shouldn't be giving it a free pass for existing, save the praise for when it actually accomplishes something.

\Don't worry about it - an amusing and instructional glimpse into the world of Dunning-Kruger.

So I'm guessing we'll see that group of aspiring Tesla fan/enthusiasts who couldn't really afford a Tesla migrate from off-lease, and/or low-end Model Ss to the Model 3. So It will be interesting to see what happens to that Model S section of the market. I guess they deleted some of the the lower-sped Ss to give headroom to the 3.
Anecdote: A young couple where I used to work leased a new Model S 60 - they basically could not afford it & it did not make sense for them  - no need for a big luxury car, with limited range, and the payments that go with it. We all shook our heads, WTF to they need that for? But everyone went out to drool over the thing & get the free rides. And a couple more appeared in the parking lot a few weeks later. People just fall over themselves.

Then questions started coming up about the company providing chargers in the parking lot - "Hey, we're a green company, this will look good to customers."

Don't talk over me. I answered you directly.

[Char]

Ridiculous acceleration? 0-60 in the 5s is quick, but I doubt it's better than the 300hp Camry. It's ugly, the interior looks like shit, the range is terrible (215mi? Likely less so in the real word) over 4000lbs (lol low center of gravity when your car weights as much as an SUV. We going to talk about the FORESTER with the Flat 6 the same way?)

It's barely a real car, it can't be driven reasonably hard, has inferior range, quality, reliability and is the pinnacle of presumptions douchebaggery. I'm not an asshole for pointing out that it's a cheap plastic power wheel with a heavy markup not ready for prime time. People are so fixated on having the newest 'thing' they can barely recognize their ass from their face.

Then again, this is the same board that deep threats mom mobiles with undefeatable nanny controls and dare call themselves enthusiasts.

[AutobahnSHO]

LOL at how we were all ragging on the car but say one nice thing about it and Char goes nuts thinking we drool about it.

[Char]

LOL at how we were all ragging on the car but say one nice thing about it and Char goes nuts thinking we drool about it.

You're not going to distract me or anyone else from this L you took in this thread and others.

[giant_mtb]

Nah.
Huh.

Such compelling arguments.

[12,000 RPM]

LOL at how we were all ragging on the car but say one nice thing about it and Char goes nuts thinking we drool about it.

No, I still stand behind my concerns with this- the console is stupid, and I don't believe in Tesla manufacturing or build quality. Char hates the bolt sizes they used for the wheel nuts on this car, it's a bit extreme and well beyond the realm of reason.

[CaminoRacer]

Char hates the bolt sizes they used for the wheel nuts on this car,

[AutobahnSHO]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-says-people-canceling-141803613.html

[Cookie Monster]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-says-people-canceling-141803613.html

Yeah, but they're still getting 1,800 reservations per day since the release last week...

https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/02/tesla-averaging-1800-model-3-reservations-per-day-since-last-weeks-event/amp/

[AutobahnSHO]

Yes, says that at the bottom of my link too. Interesting stuff.

[NomisR]

Finally I can access the car part of the forum at work.  So it looks like I can get a fleet discount for the Bolt through my company so I might be looking to upgrade to that instead.  Considering that the Bolt is said to have better RL range per CR compared to Model S 75D, and so far all Teslas have been getting lower RL range than EPA rated, I would say the range for the 3 is probably around 270 or so. 

People that are comparing Bolt to Model 3, you have to remember that with the Model 3 price is none negotiable whereas the price of the Bolt is.  ATM, I can get a Bolt for $4500 off MSPR, plus $3000 Manufacturer incentive putting the Premium model at below the price of a base 3 and better equiped and better range.  And when you compared the performance of the Bolt, from what I've read, it's comparable with the GTI in terms of performance even in autoX.  So for the price, you're getting a hot hatch that's priced comparably..  not that bad..

[Morris Minor]

Finally I can access the car part of the forum at work.  So it looks like I can get a fleet discount for the Bolt through my company so I might be looking to upgrade to that instead.  Considering that the Bolt is said to have better RL range per CR compared to Model S 75D, and so far all Teslas have been getting lower RL range than EPA rated, I would say the range for the 3 is probably around 270 or so. 

People that are comparing Bolt to Model 3, you have to remember that with the Model 3 price is none negotiable whereas the price of the Bolt is.  ATM, I can get a Bolt for $4500 off MSPR, plus $3000 Manufacturer incentive putting the Premium model at below the price of a base 3 and better equiped and better range.  And when you compared the performance of the Bolt, from what I've read, it's comparable with the GTI in terms of performance even in autoX.  So for the price, you're getting a hot hatch that's priced comparably..  not that bad..

AND to feed your geek inner self there are well-organized groups of electric car enthusiasts (not just Tesla fanboys) out there: forums, message boards, meet ups.  I have a friend who's into Chevy Volts - it's a whole world out there to be sucked into.

[Raza]

Ummm it's not going to cool down any quicker if your car is boiling hot and you adjust the temp down 10 more degrees cooler then normal

Uh, but it will cool down quicker if you manually increase the fan speed.......

[r0tor]

Uh, but it will cool down quicker if you manually increase the fan speed.......

Do you really think the brilliant engineers who created climate control did not think about how the hell to cool down the car as quick as possible? 

[Raza]

Do you really think the brilliant engineers who created climate control did not think about how the hell to cool down the car as quick as possible? 

The same brilliant engineers that created ignition switches that kill people, gas tanks that explode, and accelerator pedals that get sticky?

I think you think engineers are more brilliant than they are. 

[12,000 RPM]

Do you really think the brilliant engineers who created climate control did not think about how the hell to cool down the car as quick as possible? 

Removing the vent direction controls was stupid. No amount of fanboi intensity can change that.

[MX793]

The same brilliant engineers that created ignition switches that kill people, gas tanks that explode, and accelerator pedals that get sticky?

I think you think engineers are more brilliant than they are. 

Most of those are the result of bean counters that control the purse strings, and ultimately the final decisions, that think they know more than the engineers.