Tesla

[93JC]

Cars with frameless side windows that slightly lower the window when you open the door are all problematic in winter because these can freeze and the upper lip that the glass tucks into, while somewhat compliant in warm weather, hardens in freezing temps.  Makes it difficult to open the door and near impossible to close properly until things thaw out.

Yes, I know, in fairness it's not just Tesla that has this sort of door opening mechanism. Mercedes-Benz CLAs work the same way, I think they're equally silly, but I've used many CLAs and have first-hand experience that this doesn't (seem to) regularly happen with them.

[93JC]

The corvette has manual releases on the floor if the electronic latch were to fail.  Something the Model 3 rear doors or trunks don't have.

Really? Tesla doesn't even have emergency manual releases? Holy fuck.

[MX793]

Yes, I know, in fairness it's not just Tesla that has this sort of door opening mechanism. Mercedes-Benz CLAs work the same way, I think they're equally silly, but I've used many CLAs and have first-hand experience that this doesn't (seem to) regularly happen with them.

I haven't regularly driven either of my Mustangs in the snow.  Basically only if I get caught in a very early or very late season snowfall.  Even in those relatively few times I drove those cars when it was snowing, I encountered window sticking issues.  I can only imagine how bad it would be in the dead of winter when temperatures are colder and the snow more plentiful.

[Char]

I just can't stand the Tesla/Elon acolytes and their bullshit.

I have nothing against electric cars—I've done the math and it is very compelling—but the hyperbole from the fanbois would have you believe that any electric car that isn't a Tesla is a colossal turd for a myriad of reasons that boil down to "because it's not a Tesla". I don't like that kind of bullshit.

I like the idea of the Tesla sales model, selling directly to consumers for a fixed non-negotiable price with no hidden fees and other such bullshit endemic to sales at dealerships. I don't like that the sales model is predicated on putting down big deposits years in advance, and when it is finally being built the actual cost is grossly inflated from the promised cost.

I don't like the gewgaws like "Falcon doors", and I'll never get past the execrable touchscreen controls for eeeeeverything.

[Char]

https://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/the-electric-cars-rated-worst-for-reliability-in-2019-by-consumer-reports.html/?fbclid=IwAR3MJNf-FkoZ6pvCezDjLGTk_gnPPMKutflv5cwYLZOSAiw403cl0wCNhGo

2/3 of the brand is straight garbage.

[AutobahnSHO]

TBH, I was largely playing Devil's Advocate there, but I guess my overall point is that despite all these problems, buyers don't seem to care a whole lot and Tesla keeps exceeding expectations financially. Earlier this year, a bunch of experts were saying that they'd be bankrupt by now, but they've become profitable and appear to be stronger than ever.

Because people are dumb. The people buying these cars don't even understand the issues with poor design which we've discussed. And they don't care either.

[AutobahnSHO]

I haven't regularly driven either of my Mustangs in the snow.  Basically only if I get caught in a very early or very late season snowfall.  Even in those relatively few times I drove those cars when it was snowing, I encountered window sticking issues.  I can only imagine how bad it would be in the dead of winter when temperatures are colder and the snow more plentiful.

Subarus have had frameless windows for a long long time and I've never heard of winter issues with them.

Impreza has very very soft and thick rubber around the top and sides of the lower-able windows.

[MX793]

Subarus have had frameless windows for a long long time and I've never heard of winter issues with them.

Impreza has very very soft and thick rubber around the top and sides of the lower-able windows.

Does the Impreza roll the window down half an inch automatically when you pull on the door handle to allow the door to open or is it old-school frameless (top of window just presses against a big bulb seal)?  Old-school frameless are fine (my 240SX had them, never had an issue).  It's these newer ones where the window actually tucks into a seam and when you pull the door handle, the window actually rolls down a little bit and then rolls back up when you close the door that have been problematic.

[AutobahnSHO]

Does the Impreza roll the window down half an inch automatically when you pull on the door handle to allow the door to open or is it old-school frameless (top of window just presses against a big bulb seal)?  Old-school frameless are fine (my 240SX had them, never had an issue).  It's these newer ones where the window actually tucks into a seam and when you pull the door handle, the window actually rolls down a little bit and then rolls back up when you close the door that have been problematic.

Impreza is old-school.

I can see the seam causing issues- not a lot of room and ice would indeed mess stuff up.
But I'm sure those cars are probably quieter inside....

[CaminoRacer]

I don't like frameless windows. Too much form over function

[MX793]

Impreza is old-school.

I can see the seam causing issues- not a lot of room and ice would indeed mess stuff up.
But I'm sure those cars are probably quieter inside....

They do it for better air sealing, but if your window freezes due to ice build up at the base, it makes getting in and out of the car a pain.  Opening is OK since the outer edge is a semi-pliable, rubbery material (though it stiffens up in the cold), but closing, especially in winter, doesn't work so well.

This is what I'm specifically talking about

https://youtu.be/7fkqODRGJ6o?t=564

Ford compounded the issue on the Mustang because that black stripping you see at the bottom of the window isn't the wiper seal.  The rubber wiper seal is behind/below that.  That outer stripping just makes a nice trough for slush and water to collect in and then freeze solid when the car is parked, pretty much ensuring that your window will freeze and there's no easy way to clean the ice out of that little trough.

[BimmerM3]

I don't like frameless windows. Too much form over function

Yeah I never really understood why anyone would put them on non-convertibles.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Yeah I never really understood why anyone would put them on non-convertibles.

It makes it really easy to replace the glass when it shatters from slamming to door or forcing it open when it's iced up.

[giant_mtb]

Does the Impreza roll the window down half an inch automatically when you pull on the door handle to allow the door to open or is it old-school frameless (top of window just presses against a big bulb seal)?

IME, no, Subarus don't do the window roll. They just open/close as they are.

As an aside, frameless windows make detailing a joy. I don't have to roll the windows down to clean the top edges and there's less door jamb to clean. Winwin.

[CaminoRacer]

It makes it really easy to replace the glass when it shatters from slamming to door or forcing it open when it's iced up.

[giant_mtb]

I wonder how often that happens with Subarus. They're clearly designed with snow and cold in mind, given their geography.

[12,000 RPM]

Yeah I never really understood why anyone would put them on non-convertibles.

Um they're beautiful.



They can be well done with enough money.

[BimmerM3]

Um they're beautiful.

They can be well done with enough money.

Fair enough, I guess. I don't personally care about losing pillar, but to each his own.

Plus that doesn't explain Subaru doing it.

[MX793]

Fair enough, I guess. I don't personally care about losing pillar, but to each his own.

Plus that doesn't explain Subaru doing it.

IIRC, it allowed for beefier pillars and structure around the door frames than framed doors.

[Galaxy]

Really? Tesla doesn't even have emergency manual releases? Holy fuck.

The BMW i3 can not even open the rear doors without the fronts being opened. If memory serves, there are other cars with electric lock, that do not have a manual override on the rear doors. Doug DeMuro always harps about this, as he should. Then there are the child locks of course with hinder any opening. 

[BimmerM3]

The BMW i3 can not even open the rear doors without the fronts being opened.

Isn't that true of a lot of those rear suicide doors? FJ Cruiser, RX-8, some extended cab pickups, etc.

I mean... god forbid you sit in the back of a 2+2 coupe...

[MX793]

The BMW i3 can not even open the rear doors without the fronts being opened. If memory serves, there are other cars with electric lock, that do not have a manual override on the rear doors. Doug DeMuro always harps about this, as he should. Then there are the child locks of course with hinder any opening. 

Child locks don't prevent someone outside of the vehicle, like a first responder, from opening the door.  Same with rear-hinged half-doors.  If there's a power failure in a Model 3, there is no way to open the rear doors to get an occupant out.  Your options are for the occupant to try to crawl into the front seat, crawl or be dragged out of the window, or cut the door off.

[BimmerM3]

Child locks don't prevent someone outside of the vehicle, like a first responder, from opening the door.  Same with rear-hinged half-doors.  If there's a power failure in a Model 3, there is no way to open the rear doors to get an occupant out.  Your options are for the occupant to try to crawl into the front seat, crawl or be dragged out of the window, or cut the door off.

Oh, the exterior handles are electronic too? I figured that they were mechanical since they actually move.

Yeah, that is dumb.

[12,000 RPM]

All it's gonna take is one tragedy, sadly. Teslas are pretty safe, but that's a very stupid design decision.

[Morris Minor]

Tesla starts taking Model 3 orders in China
(Reuters) - Tesla Inc has started taking orders for its Model 3 sedan in China for a deposit of 8,000 yuan ($1,153.60), according to the electric carmaker's China website www.tesla.cn/model3/reserve.
Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk said, "Probably some deliveries in March, but April is more certain", after a Twitter user asked when the deliveries in China would begin.
Tesla declined to comment.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-model-3-china/tesla-starts-taking-model-3-orders-in-china-idUSKCN1NL1W0

[veeman]

Does the Impreza roll the window down half an inch automatically when you pull on the door handle to allow the door to open or is it old-school frameless (top of window just presses against a big bulb seal)?  Old-school frameless are fine (my 240SX had them, never had an issue).  It's these newer ones where the window actually tucks into a seam and when you pull the door handle, the window actually rolls down a little bit and then rolls back up when you close the door that have been problematic.

My Beetle had the kind which rolled down half an inch automatically.  I thought it was kinda cool.  I drove it through 3 winters in the Northeast US.  When it was really cold out, the door wouldn't shut properly.  It would close shut and not swing open but not completely.  I just had to keep driving for about 10 minutes and then everything would thaw enough that I could close the door completely.  Wasn't a big deal for me and it only happened when it was close to zero degrees F.

[12,000 RPM]

Z had frameless doors and the windows would drop I forget when. Was interesting to open the doors when the battery died

[Morris Minor]

This will irritate Elon-skeptics
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/19/neil-degrasse-tyson-elon-musk-is-the-most-important-person-in-tech.html

[GoCougs]

Ole Neil has been overexposed IMO.

Jobs, Bezos, Gates, etc., created things that created sustained value, and that created the future. Musk is still working on the first part and things don't look so good.

[AutobahnSHO]

LOLS- Idiot spins a Tesla 3 at 130mph

Highlights:
-just after start calls Wendover "a hole"
- :45 lame music for a run up to 154mph
- 2:00 starts another run
- 2:40 starts to spin and drives like a tard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZbLeRD8hQE