Tesla

[CaminoRacer]

I looked at a motorcycle at a dealership one time and they wasted like 40 minutes of my time just to tell me they'd only give me a couple hundred bucks for my GS550 if I traded it in. Never stepped foot in there again. If you can't respect your customers' time, why should they give you thousands of dollars?

[GoCougs]

I love new car buying - I don't do it often enough. It brings out the Alpha to shine with the force of a thousand suns - the second I step on that lot the whole of the establishment works for me and They all shall know it.

Thing is dealers behave as they do as that is what it takes to sell new cars to WtP; IOW, selling a thing that is too expensive to people who can't afford it.

[veeman]

I remember Saturn and Scion had a no haggle pricing policy.

[afty]

I've had good experiences with Tesla mobile service. Have had them out several times for maintenance (cabin air filter replacement, 12V battery) and small repairs/a recall. It's super convenient and they don't try to upsell you.

[Rich]

I tried FSD in the Model Y test drive.  On the highway I merged into the right lane of 3 lanes, but then, it moved to the center of 3 lanes.  The message on the screen said something like "staying out of rightmost lane".

I would take a machete to the throat of the engineers that designed that into the system.

[AutobahnSHO]

I tried FSD in the Model Y test drive.  On the highway I merged into the right lane of 3 lanes, but then, it moved to the center of 3 lanes.  The message on the screen said something like "staying out of rightmost lane".

I would take a machete to the throat of the engineers that designed that into the system.

They drive like 90% of the country.

[SJ_GTI]

I looked at a motorcycle at a dealership one time and they wasted like 40 minutes of my time just to tell me they'd only give me a couple hundred bucks for my GS550 if I traded it in. Never stepped foot in there again. If you can't respect your customers' time, why should they give you thousands of dollars?

I think the theory is that customer will follow the sunk cost fallacy. If a customer has already spent a lot of their time at a particular dealer during the buying process they are less likely to just walk away from the deal over "small" issues.

[Morris Minor]

I tried FSD in the Model Y test drive.  On the highway I merged into the right lane of 3 lanes, but then, it moved to the center of 3 lanes.  The message on the screen said something like "staying out of rightmost lane".

I would take a machete to the throat of the engineers that designed that into the system.

I sat through all of this last night. It's a bit like Home Shopping Network infomercials of old but, for surface streets at least FSD now looks good. The move at 6m23 got my attention (https://youtu.be/43Lrrhn0CMk?si=7KwbNIGbKQkGKhJU&t=383), when it moved over at the red light to give the turning car more elbow room. That was impressive.

Whole thing.

[giant_mtb]

Thing barely ever even hit the speed limit. Now I know why Teslas are always going so slow, despite their aMaZiNg ability to do 0-60 in .02 seconds.

[r0tor]

Thing barely ever even hit the speed limit. Now I know why Teslas are always going so slow, despite their aMaZiNg ability to do 0-60 in .02 seconds.

That actually had me thinking the other day... I see so many Teslas on the road but I don't think I ever have seen one do any kind of impressive acceleration run

[CaminoRacer]

They're silent so it's not as obvious.

Watching a Model S Plaid and Model 3 Performance at autocross events is pretty crazy. The Plaid fights for top time of the day pretty frequently. Absolutely insane acceleration, and enough tire to grip around the corners although you can tell it's heavier than the Porsches and Corvettes that run similar times.

[Morris Minor]

Thing barely ever even hit the speed limit. Now I know why Teslas are always going so slow, despite their aMaZiNg ability to do 0-60 in .02 seconds.

I questioned all-knowing Grok God...
Q: In full FSD, what determines the driving speeds and any offsets from posted limits?

A: "In full FSD (Full Self-Driving), the driving speeds and any offsets from posted limits are determined by a combination of the vehicle's understanding of its environment and the user's preferences. The FSD software, as of version 12, includes a new feature called "Automatic Set Speed Offset," which allows the Autopilot system to autonomously determine the most appropriate driving speed based on real-time conditions. This feature considers factors such as the type of road, current traffic flow, environmental conditions, and the driver's selected FSD profile, which can range from "Chill" to "Assertive."

Additionally, the user has some control over the driving speed through the "Speed Limit Offset" feature. This allows the user to set a fixed speed or percentage offset from the speed limit, offering a more customized and comfortable driving experience. However, the user is advised to be aware of speed limits and the potential consequences of driving above them, as the system may warn the driver when exceeding the speed limit.

The overall goal of these features is to ensure that the vehicle operates at safe and appropriate speeds while providing a smooth and comfortable ride for the driver and passengers."

[giant_mtb]

I was being at least mostly facetious, as I'd probably be driving relatively slow in dense environs like that as well.  Shit, I get road rage triggered by people that drive more than like 5mph in a grocery store parking lot. People that zoom through parking lots can't be trusted.

[565]

I sat through all of this last night. It's a bit like Home Shopping Network infomercials of old but, for surface streets at least FSD now looks good. The move at 6m23 got my attention (https://youtu.be/43Lrrhn0CMk?si=7KwbNIGbKQkGKhJU&t=383), when it moved over at the red light to give the turning car more elbow room. That was impressive.

Whole thing.

Everyone got a full FSD trial this month.  It works great except in situations with stop signs.  It's because the government mandated that Teslas FSD comes to a full stop at stop signs rather than rolling through just like everyone else.  The good thing is you can nudge it along with the accelerator while it's at a stop sign so the people behind you don't go ballistic.

I would say it drives like a good tourist driver in a new city.  It follows rules and does well for being cautious but doesn't have the experience of someone who knows the area. 

FSD before version 12 was definitely not worth the subscription cost.  Now with this AI version I think I'll pay the 99 bucks a month when the trial runs out.

[GoCougs]

Tesla knowingly commits crimes against its customers vis-a-vis Autopilot: https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/teslas-critical-safety-gap-6004596/.

A "critical safety gap" in Tesla's Autopilot feature played a role in at least 467 collisions, 13 of them fatal, according to a new report from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. The agency spent nearly three years investigating more than 900 crashes in which Autopilot was thought to have been involved. The system's design has "led to foreseeable misuse and avoidable crashes," the report says. The NHTSA has also launched a probe into Tesla's December recall of more than 2 million vehicles, saying it discovered issues with crashes that happened after the recall.

[565]

Here is the actual report.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2022/INCR-EA22002-14496.pdf

Seems like all the 13 fatalities were from something crossing in front of the Tesla and the driver not bothering to do anything. 

All level 2 systems require you to still pay attention.

At the end of their report in comparing it to other systems, they only came up with 2 things.  First is that they argue the system discourages people to disengage it because it holds the wheel and disengages with a certain amount of torque while other systems will auto disengage if you move the wheel however slightly and then randomly engage again all by itself. The Toyota does this and I will tell you it is much less safe because you have no idea when it's actually engaged or not.  Often times you think it's still lane centering but it has randomly decided to call it quits and you drift into the next lane. 

The only other thing they can come up with is the name. Others call their system assist or use weaker language while Tesla calls it autopilot.  Yet that just proves these people don't know what autopilot means, because in other vehicles with real autopilot, like planes and boats, the system just holds a heading and speed (and for planes altitude) and navigates to set waypoints for you.  It doesn't avoid other planes or other boats, or docks or lands for you, if you set a boat autopilot to run over a island it will gladly try to run aground for you. If anything the Tesla system is more capable and safer than the autopilot systems it got its name from.

Overall the report shows that it's not autopilot suddenly going rogue and driving people off cliffs or steering into other cars.  You still got to pay attention, which the system tells you repeatedly during your drive.

Tesla system will definitely get involved in more crashes because it gets actually used. The system in the BMW and Toyota are complete trash by comparison. I only use the one in the BMW occasionally because I stupidly paid for the feature.  My father no longer remembers how to activate the feature on his Tundra because he never uses it anymore.  My wife never used the BMW feature again after trying it once and it's her car.  The Tesla travels 90% of it miles on autopilot.

[Morris Minor]

Everyone got a full FSD trial this month.  It works great except in situations with stop signs.  It's because the government mandated that Teslas FSD comes to a full stop at stop signs rather than rolling through just like everyone else.  The good thing is you can nudge it along with the accelerator while it's at a stop sign so the people behind you don't go ballistic.

I would say it drives like a good tourist driver in a new city.  It follows rules and does well for being cautious but doesn't have the experience of someone who knows the area. 

FSD before version 12 was definitely not worth the subscription cost.  Now with this AI version I think I'll pay the 99 bucks a month when the trial runs out.

The tourist driver analogy is good. FSD is now nudging towards great, but doesn't know the tips, back doubles, shortcuts, quirks and local knowledge we gain over years of driving on our own turf. Here in the southern Appalachians you can always tell when you're driving behind someone who's not a local. Flatlanders we calls 'em.

I've heard though (I think it was from John Gibbs, or maybe James Douma - dunno) that they're now working on localizing, encourage drivers to intervene to train for local stuff which would become part of their profile.

[GoCougs]

Here is the actual report.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2022/INCR-EA22002-14496.pdf

The report doesn't fault the tech per se but faults Tesla for knowing its tech is misused and is lying about it, thusly leading to more crashes and fatalities. IOW, Tesla being Tesla.

[MrH]

Damning report from NHTSA.  The knots you guys are tying yourselves into to say it's a nothing is wild to watch.

[Rich]

Tesla World Takeover 2024

[CaminoRacer]

Tesla World Takeover 2024

lol Infinity

[Morris Minor]

How many people here have EVs? I know: 
MrH has an F150 Lightning
Laconian has an EV6 GT
CaminoRacer has a Bolt

[FoMoJo]

How many people here have EVs? I know:
MrH has an F150 Lightning
Laconian has an EV6 GT
CaminoRacer has a Bolt

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ChrisV
Veeman
565

[CaminoRacer]

https://electrek.co/2024/04/29/tesla-conducting-more-layoffs-including-entire-supercharger-team/

Just after laying off "more than 10%" of its global workforce, Tesla is laying off even more employees – including senior executives and long-time veterans of the company, most notably the entire Supercharging team and the executive responsible for negotiating NACS adoption across the industry.

________________________

Great! Just as the industry starts to shift to NACS, Tesla might stop bothering to expand?

We really need the other networks to step up.

[GoCougs]

The EV market is headed for the inevitable backend of the whiplash. As awful as Tesla is as a company, unlike others trying their hand at the EV game, Tesla's getting out in front of it, unlike said others (who stand to get crushed).

As to seemingly bailing on supercharging, my hunch is Tesla knows it's not much of a factor in the purchase of Teslas, since most Tesla owners are high/higher income folk who also own ICE(s) for extended driving. And what little factor it is, let the rest of the industry develops NACS instead.

[Morris Minor]

https://electrek.co/2024/04/29/tesla-conducting-more-layoffs-including-entire-supercharger-team/

Just after laying off "more than 10%" of its global workforce, Tesla is laying off even more employees – including senior executives and long-time veterans of the company, most notably the entire Supercharging team and the executive responsible for negotiating NACS adoption across the industry.

________________________

Great! Just as the industry starts to shift to NACS, Tesla might stop bothering to expand?

We really need the other networks to step up.

It keeps getting worse:
https://www.theonion.com/tesla-lays-off-entire-team-behind-brakes-1851449223

[Rich]

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-retreats-next-generation-gigacasting-manufacturing-process-2024-05-01/

[SJ_GTI]

The use of "giga" in front of everything Tesla just makes me think og family guy.

[CaminoRacer]

At this point, GM or Ford should just buy Tesla's car division and Elon can focus on his FSD robotaxi bullshit because he clearly doesn't care about making physical cars anymore

[veeman]

I think Musk realizes he cannot and will never be able to compete with Chinese EV auto manufacturers in China (which is the largest market in the world for EV) and elsewhere in the world the outlook for continued expansion of EV market share is not great. He has slashed pricing and profit per Tesla vehicle has significantly decreased but despite this, sales are decreasing.

So he has switched his focus to full self driving where Tesla has a significant lead over everyone else.  If his robotaxi comes to successful fruition it may be a brilliant move but I don't think it will, especially in a highly regulatory U.S. and Western Europe environment. It just takes one fatality or severe injury to shut the whole thing down.