M/T On Demand: 2017 ZL1 vs. 2017 GT350R

[68_427]

Maybe, maybe not, certainly possible.

My post was in reponse to our two fine friends perplexing over why the "better car" didn't win.

They stated in the video they didn't use the regular GT350 because it feels too much like a Mustang GT with a different engine.  So even though it would technically be a more direct comparison they chose the R because they like it better.  Either way not arguing against you I just didn't see that info mentioned in the thread yet.  Not a great comparison over all from MT tbh.

[MX793]

They stated in the video they didn't use the regular GT350 because it feels too much like a Mustang GT with a different engine.  So even though it would technically be a more direct comparison they chose the R because they like it better.  Either way not arguing against you I just didn't see that info mentioned in the thread yet.  Not a great comparison over all from MT tbh.

Well, pricing between the R and ZL1 is closer as well.

[68_427]

Well, pricing between the R and ZL1 is closer as well.

Considering base prices yes, but option a regular GT350 to equivalent equipment levels and the difference is $3K.  Which is the same the ZL1 undercuts and equivalently spec'd GT350R, so it perfectly splits the two in price.  The only real options on the ZL1 are navi and sunroof, but even the base ZL1 has the 8" mylink system with carplay and AA.

[r0tor]

THIS! And the ZL1 has even MORE radiators/intercoolers! I've never heard of a single one overheating! Same for Z06 after the cooling updates!
I'm sure the ZL1 would pull away on a FASTER track! You Ford guys kill me! Y'all bring up cooling issues with a totally differant car (Z06), Claim y'all would buy the slower car based on LOOKS (GT) and Hope the GT500 (Which is only good in a straight line) will finally tame the 6th Gen Camaro. Lets face it! The GT350 was barely better than the Z28 and this new platform (And engines) is worlds better than Gen 5 Camaros! Take your ass whipping like a man and stop grasping for straws! The faster car should have won! PERIOD!

Lingenfelter already sells an upgrade for the intercooler.  Most supercharged cars end up getting heat soak issues after sustained lapping.  It happens.

You go on this rant while previously proclaiming how great the ZL1 1LE will be and how badly it will dominate... All while it doesn't exist? Then try to say how bad the also non existent GT500 will be?? 

... Wow...

[12,000 RPM]

A new challenger enters.... I am enjoying this fanboi battle

[FoMoJo]

So much quibbling .

[GoCougs]

Considering base prices yes, but option a regular GT350 to equivalent equipment levels and the difference is $3K.  Which is the same the ZL1 undercuts and equivalently spec'd GT350R, so it perfectly splits the two in price.  The only real options on the ZL1 are navi and sunroof, but even the base ZL1 has the 8" mylink system with carplay and AA.

True, but they were working with limited options - the ZL1 and GT350R are the highest trims of each respective marque whilst one is a GT and the other a track car.

For this round, the ZL1 is the superior performer, the most livable and a bit less expensive. We'll see when the ZL1 1LE, GT500, and perhaps the mythical L88, are available.

[GoCougs]

Lingenfelter already sells an upgrade for the intercooler.  Most supercharged cars end up getting heat soak issues after sustained lapping.  It happens.

You go on this rant while previously proclaiming how great the ZL1 1LE will be and how badly it will dominate... All while it doesn't exist? Then try to say how bad the also non existent GT500 will be?? 

... Wow...

No, Lingenfelter does not sell an intercooloer kit for the 2017 ZL1.

[CaminoRacer]

Even if they do, it doesn't matter. Aftermarket companies will.always sell stuff that isn't needed on stock cars.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Lingenfelter already sells an upgrade for the intercooler.  Most supercharged cars end up getting heat soak issues after sustained lapping.  It happens.

You go on this rant while previously proclaiming how great the ZL1 1LE will be and how badly it will dominate... All while it doesn't exist? Then try to say how bad the also non existent GT500 will be?? 

... Wow...

Still grasping.... The ZL1 1LE DOES exist. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MQkcu1m0vI

[r0tor]

No, Lingenfelter does not sell an intercooloer kit for the 2017 ZL1.

Callaway... Sorry, my bad

[r0tor]

Still grasping.... The ZL1 1LE DOES exist. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MQkcu1m0vI

... Still not on dealer lots or actually tested...

[Rich]

"I'm getting doughnuts!"

😂😂

[GoCougs]

Callaway... Sorry, my bad

Nope, not Callaway either:  http://www.callawaycars.com/homepage/components/

[Tave]

Nope, not Callaway either:  http://www.callawaycars.com/homepage/components/

Callaway doesn't advertise their entire catalogue online. Their +700hp package for the LT4 comes with a new intercooler.

[GoCougs]

Callaway doesn't advertise their entire catalogue online. Their +700hp package for the LT4 comes with a new intercooler.

Neither Lingenfelter nor Callaway offer an intercooler "upgrade" for the 2017+ Camaro ZL1. Such a thing wouldn't make any sense; it's easy for an automaker to get right plus an intercooler does not affect engine operating temperature; ergo why they don't do it.

[12,000 RPM]

OEMs undersize and cheap out on equipment all the time. It's shameful that we still have to go over this with you after all these years.

[Tave]

Neither Lingenfelter nor Callaway offer an intercooler "upgrade" for the 2017+ Camaro ZL1. Such a thing wouldn't make any sense; it's easy for an automaker to get right plus an intercooler does not affect engine operating temperature; ergo why they don't do it.

The ZL1 doesn't need it because Chevy added a bunch of heat exchangers and cooling to mitigate the Corvette's issues. I believe r0tor was talking about the 'Vette.

Yes, Callaway sells their LT4 package with a different intercooler, not to mention a different supercharger as well.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.hotrod.com/articles/first-drive-757-horsepower-callaway-corvette-z06-sc757/amp/
https://www.google.com/amp/www.autoblog.com/amp/2015/07/28/callaway-lingenfelter-corvette-z06-official/
http://www.motorweek.org/reviews/road_tests/2016-callaway-sc757-z06-corvette

[MX793]

Neither Lingenfelter nor Callaway offer an intercooler "upgrade" for the 2017+ Camaro ZL1. Such a thing wouldn't make any sense; it's easy for an automaker to get right plus an intercooler does not affect engine operating temperature; ergo why they don't do it.

If you're running more boost, you need a higher capacity intercooler or your charge temperature goes up and you'll detonate.

[GoCougs]

You guys are trying way too hard.

[12,000 RPM]

You guys are trying way too hard.

indeed, how dare anyone prove you wrong (again)

[GoCougs]

Neither Callaway nor Lingenfelter offer a 2017+ ZL1 intercoolor upgrade and intercoolers do not affect engine operating temperature. ANY statements to the contrary are wrong statements and attempts at strawmanning and gaslighting only make it worse.

[MX793]

Neither Callaway nor Lingenfelter offer a 2017+ ZL1 intercoolor upgrade and intercoolers do not affect engine operating temperature. ANY statements to the contrary are wrong statements and attempts at strawmanning and gaslighting only make it worse.

Of course they don't, the '17 ZL1 is too new.  Lingenfelter does offer intercooler upgrades for the previous generation ZL1 (actually, an upgrade to the liquid/air exchanger at the front of the car that feeds the unit between the SC and the intake manifold, as well as higher capacity coolant reservoirs).

While it doesn't affect "engine temperature" (which I assume you mean water and/or oil temps), intercooler does affect charge temperature.  If the air charge gets too hot, the engine will lose power either due to less dense incoming air or it will have to pull timing to prevent damaging detonation.  And if you crank up the boost, as kits from the likes of Lingenfelter or Callaway oft do, you will introduce more heat to the air charge and need additional cooling via the intercooler to bring those temperatures down.

[CaminoRacer]

And if you crank up the boost, as kits from the likes of Lingenfelter or Callaway oft do, you will introduce more heat to the air charge and need additional cooling via the intercooler to bring those temperatures down.

Meaning that their offerings can't be used as proof that the cars are bad from the factory.

[MX793]

Meaning that their offerings can't be used as proof that the cars are bad from the factory.

There are reasons to upgrade even if not dialing up the boost.  If you live in a hot climate and run the car hard (track duty, not that very many buyers do), a better IC will stave off heat soak a bit longer than the stock unit.

[GoCougs]

M/T has the written article, by Lieberman, up. He says the ZL1 is more 911 Turbo - too good + no flaws = sorta bad, plus now he says he likes the SS 1LE (at least its handling) over the GT350R.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/mustang/2017/2017-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-vs-2017-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350r-review/

[FoMoJo]

Excellent article.

[12,000 RPM]

GM needs to bring back the Z28, and Ford needs to bring back the GT500.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

M/T has the written article, by Lieberman, up. He says the ZL1 is more 911 Turbo - too good + no flaws = sorta bad, plus now he says he likes the SS 1LE (at least its handling) over the GT350R.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/mustang/2017/2017-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-vs-2017-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350r-review/

This is the Camaro people have been begging GM to build for decades. Now the car is TOO GOOD!??!   

[FoMoJo]

GM needs to bring back the Z28, and Ford needs to bring back the GT500.

We know the GT500 is in the works; and we know that it will blow the skirt off of the ZL1 .