2017 Mazda MX-5 Miata RF Vs. 2017 Toyota 86

[Raza]

What's wrong with Philly other than being close to Camden?

What's so great about Charlotte?

I'm asking because I've been to the east coast like once and that was to D.C.

Rotor just irrationally hates Philly because he stepped in gum there once or something. Don't listen to him. Philadelphia has its problems and its problem areas, but it's very much a city on the rise and has been for the 10 or 15 years.

[Raza]

The south is way more laid back. Between NYC and DC people are just always in a hurry and not as friendly.

I would say RF or softtop FTW.

Southern cities don't feel like cities to me. They're massive, spread out, and there's so much space. Things are so far apart, outside of a small downtown area, cabs and walking don't seem like feasible options for getting around. Memphis, for example, feels more like an urban suburb (which doesn't make any sense, I know) than a city. Been years since I've been to other southern cities, though. I drove through Charlotte like 9 years ago. Seemed kind of nice.

[CaminoRacer]

Cabs and walking suck.

[giant_mtb]

wtf r cabs 😅

[r0tor]

Rotor just irrationally hates Philly because he stepped in gum there once or something. Don't listen to him. Philadelphia has its problems and its problem areas, but it's very much a city on the rise and has been for the 10 or 15 years.

It's not hard to rise for 10-15 years when you were the brown eye of East coast cities.

What is there really to do in Philly?  The independence hall area is nice.  I had my windshield washed by a bum a few blocks away from the liberty bell.  The Delaware River largely smells like ass by the time it reaches the city so the waterfront area is only tolerable in the northern part of the city.  The southern half of the city and into deleware on the water front is seriously heavy industry loaded up with nasty ass refineries.

What else did I miss? Sports complexes are nice as long as you don't park under I95.  South street is 4 blocks of trying to be bourbon street.  Temple University resembles Mogadishu 3 blocks off campus.  Old City is just an average thing you see in every city.

[12,000 RPM]

Southern cities don't feel like cities to me. They're massive, spread out, and there's so much space. Things are so far apart, outside of a small downtown area, cabs and walking don't seem like feasible options for getting around. Memphis, for example, feels more like an urban suburb (which doesn't make any sense, I know) than a city. Been years since I've been to other southern cities, though. I drove through Charlotte like 9 years ago. Seemed kind of nice.

Southern cities definitely get an F on walkability, but IIRC you were the guy who likened the NYC subway to prison and are a huge driving advocate. I'd have figured having to drive everywhere would be a plus.

Driving through or even visiting somewhere is one thing; actually living there is another. In that regard, Southern cities are a lot more livable. Unless you're literally out every night every week, ultimately things like space and quality of life matter.

[Laconian]

I've only been to Florida, but my experience there is that people spend half the year scurrying from one air conditioned space to another. Walking is out of the question.

[MX793]

I've only been to Florida, but my experience there is that people spend half the year scurrying from one air conditioned space to another. Walking is out of the question.

Floridians have their windows closed and AC going when it's a comfortable 73F outside in the early spring.  I go down there almost every March and the only vehicles I see with windows or convertible tops down are rentals or out of staters.

[Laconian]

Floridians have their windows closed and AC going when it's a comfortable 73F outside in the early spring

I've noticed that! Also, they break out their sweaters when it's below 65.

I go down there almost every March and the only vehicles I see with windows or convertible tops down

Guilty as charged, though IMO the thick humid air is less satisfying for 'vert driving. What's your reason for visiting?

[SJ_GTI]

Floridians have their windows closed and AC going when it's a comfortable 73F outside in the early spring.  I go down there almost every March and the only vehicles I see with windows or convertible tops down are rentals or out of staters.

I know the common thinking is that the weather down south is preferable but I really like the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic four seasons. Yes we get some heat waves and some cold spells but for the most part it is relatively moderate. I haven't even used my home's air conditioner yet this year. For me as long as it stays in the ~70's I am usually OK.

[MX793]

I've noticed that! Also, they break out their sweaters when it's below 65.

Guilty as charged, though IMO the thick humid air is less satisfying for 'vert driving. What's your reason for visiting?

I have family there.  March is Bike Week, so I go to visit family and watch the Daytona Supercross.

[Tave]

Charlotte is a lot more like Northeastern cities than something like an Atlanta, Houston, or Phoenix. The downtown (Uptown) area has extremely high occupancy rates and all the desireable residential neighborhoods are close to the city center. The light rail is worthless but it's easy to grab a cab and they're pretty cheap.

[Raza]

It's not hard to rise for 10-15 years when you were the brown eye of East coast cities.

What is there really to do in Philly?  The independence hall area is nice.  I had my windshield washed by a bum a few blocks away from the liberty bell.  The Delaware River largely smells like ass by the time it reaches the city so the waterfront area is only tolerable in the northern part of the city.  The southern half of the city and into deleware on the water front is seriously heavy industry loaded up with nasty ass refineries.

What else did I miss? Sports complexes are nice as long as you don't park under I95.  South street is 4 blocks of trying to be bourbon street.  Temple University resembles Mogadishu 3 blocks off campus.  Old City is just an average thing you see in every city.

Two words: irrational hate.

[Raza]

Southern cities definitely get an F on walkability, but IIRC you were the guy who likened the NYC subway to prison and are a huge driving advocate. I'd have figured having to drive everywhere would be a plus.

Driving through or even visiting somewhere is one thing; actually living there is another. In that regard, Southern cities are a lot more livable. Unless you're literally out every night every week, ultimately things like space and quality of life matter.

I do like driving places--but I like to have a drink when I go out, so those two things don't mix.

I don't value space as much as a lot of people, and I don't understand how being in the south (among southerners) means you have a better quality of life, but I can see how people would enjoy living in southern cities.

[12,000 RPM]

I do like driving places--but I like to have a drink when I go out, so those two things don't mix. [/url]
Uber, or live in a hip neighborhood.

I don't value space as much as a lot of people, and I don't understand how being in the south (among southerners) means you have a better quality of life, but I can see how people would enjoy living in southern cities.

The people here are not bad. Really nice actually. I enjoy work down here a lot more than I did in NYC largely because of the people.

And generally things are just less stressful. That accumulates and wears on you. Plus even if you don't value space I'm sure you value getting more for your money. I do recall you being into outdoorsy stuff as well.... again you can do that a lot easier down here for a longer part of the year than you can in Philly.

People up north are running out of reasons to shit on the south (which is why there is the mass exodus). If you ever make your way down I will gladly give you a tour

[CaminoRacer]

Nashville was voted friendliest city in America. The rest of the big ("big") southern cities aren't far behind.

[BimmerM3]

I don't understand how being in the south (among southerners) means you have a better quality of life, but I can see how people would enjoy living in southern cities.

Generally cheaper COL than NE cities is a primary reason.

Also, the stereotypical southerners that I assume you're thinking of mostly live out in the boonies, not in the cities. Just look at the election maps. This is the 2016 presdiential results for GA. The six biggest cities (Atlanta, Columbus, Augusta, Macon, Savannah, and Athens) are all in blue counties. 

[Cookie Monster]

Fwiw I liked the outskirts of Atlanta when I was there for training. Nice and Holly and green. I didn't go to downtown Atlanta but the traffic there was terrible.

BTW when we went to the bars there we had to take a cab there and back. In Chicago we just walked around. The bars in Atlanta were awesome though.

[BimmerM3]

Fwiw I liked the outskirts of Atlanta when I was there for training. Nice and Holly and green. I didn't go to downtown Atlanta but the traffic there was terrible.

BTW when we went to the bars there we had to take a cab there and back. In Chicago we just walked around. The bars in Atlanta were awesome though.

I've heard it described as "a city in the trees, not trees in a city." If you're in midtown or downtown, it's fairly walkable. But I definitely spent a lot of money on Lyft rides when I lived there.

Do you remember which bars you visited? Or at least which part of town you were in?

[giant_mtb]

I know the common thinking is that the weather down south is preferable but I really like the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic four seasons. Yes we get some heat waves and some cold spells but for the most part it is relatively moderate. I haven't even used my home's air conditioner yet this year. For me as long as it stays in the ~70's I am usually OK.

Shit, I just stopped turning on my heat at night like a week ago.

[Cookie Monster]

I've heard it described as "a city in the trees, not trees in a city." If you're in midtown or downtown, it's fairly walkable. But I definitely spent a lot of money on Lyft rides when I lived there.

Do you remember which bars you visited? Or at least which part of town you were in?

We were in Buckhead, which from looking at a map,  is really far from downtown. 

There was a place with a thing called "Welfare Wednesdays" where all drinks were stupid cheap. A pitcher of beer was $2 and they had free beers all night. I got trashed for less than $10. That was probably the most fun I've had at a bar ever.

[BimmerM3]

We were in Buckhead, which from looking at a map,  is really far from downtown. 

There was a place with a thing called "Welfare Wednesdays" where all drinks were stupid cheap. A pitcher of beer was $2 and they had free beers all night. I got trashed for less than $10. That was probably the most fun I've had at a bar ever.

Oh Lord, I used to go to Welfare Wednesday every week in college.

[Xer0]

Fwiw I liked the outskirts of Atlanta when I was there for training. Nice and Holly and green. I didn't go to downtown Atlanta but the traffic there was terrible.

BTW when we went to the bars there we had to take a cab there and back. In Chicago we just walked around. The bars in Atlanta were awesome though.

That's because Chicago is filled with alcoholics.  This city literally averages 4 bars a block.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

This city literally averages 4 bars a block.

Same here in Cleveland......

[Cookie Monster]

Same here in Cleveland......

Is it because of the Cavaliers?

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Is it because of the Cavaliers?

NOPE! The Browns! 

[giant_mtb]

That's because Chicago is filled with alcoholics.  This city literally averages 4 bars a block.

Rust belt is well-known for its high bars per capita numbers.  Highest I could find was Pittsburgh at 11.8 per 10,000 people.

Funny, my town has that beat easily.  We have 7 bars for 4,500 people, 9 if you include the Elks and VFW...