C&D I'm not buying a minivan test

[AutobahnSHO]

Minivan can tow about the same as the typical midsize family sedan (or crossover ute).  Not much.  A small popup camper.  Maybe a light, open utility trailer for an ATV, jet ski, or a couple of dirtbikes.  Granted, that's about all a midsize crossover will handle as well (CX-9, Edge, Venza).  Many crossovers can't handle more than 2000 lbs (the GM crossovers are 1500-2000 lbs).  .

My old minivan is rated for 3500lbs.      http://news.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=2002081950134
New one too: http://automobiles.honda.com/2017/odyssey/specifications.aspx

Which is the same as the FWD Pilot (AWD is rated at 5000) http://news.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=9304-en

Pacifica is 3600, just so it beats Sienna, also rated at 3500.

[BimmerM3]

I don't think there's anything extreme or unusual about not wanting to drive a minivan--there's a multibillion dollar SUV market that exists because of it. It's about as extreme as wearing a jersey of your home team to watch a football game.

You said "everyone." I'm sorry if you didn't say what you meant.

The fact that it's common doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

And no, a five figure vehicle purchase is not the same as a $70-200 shirt purchase.

[Lebowski]

Everyone does.

Some more than others, and you more than most.


I assume your post was mostly sarcasm, if that's not the case then I have to agree with Sporty in that your obsession with image here is a bit absurd. It's one thing when image does not get in the way of living, as in dressing well, but to believe placing practicality ahead of image in a given case is "pathetic" or "surrendering your life" is, well, itself a bit pathetic and ironically is surrendering to your perception of the opinion of others (hint: nobody really cares).

Also as you know most people are not car enthusiasts. For those people (what, 90% of the population?) simply buying the most practical car while taking into account value is the optimal decision. Caring so much about image is why people make irrational decisions like having a perpetual car payment for a luxury car when the person doesn't even have any interest in cars.

[12,000 RPM]

Even if it was sarcastic or hyperbolic it's still reflective of Raza's viewpoint to some degree, which makes it even more absurd. How dare a parent make the comfort and convenience of their offspring a bigger priority than the image they project to total strangers

[Tave]

Didn't you want to buy a Camry and put coilovers on it because you loved the way it looked?

Didn't you buy a Lincoln in large part because it was a more unusual choice and something you didn't see a lot of people driving?

We all care about looks in some form or another. The important part is being comfortable in your own skin and able to laugh at yourself every once in awhile.

[12,000 RPM]

Liking how a car looks <> choosing a car to project a certain image

And lol @ either car being my first choice for looks or image. The main drivers of those purchases were boring things like reliability, practicality, comfort, value etc. If I were just going for looks/image I would probably have got an old Cayman S for me and probably a Range Rover Sport + warranty for wifey. I don't disagree that we all care about looks to some degree, but Raza seems to care beyond the point of it being fun/healthy.

[Tave]

Liking how a car looks <> choosing a car to project a certain image

And lol @ either car being my first choice for looks or image. The main drivers of those purchases were boring things like reliability, practicality, comfort, value etc. If I were just going for looks/image I would probably have got an old Cayman S for me and probably a Range Rover Sport + warranty for wifey. I don't disagree that we all care about looks to some degree, but Raza seems to care beyond the point of it being fun/healthy.

You're taking his comment way too seriously. It's obviously a very sarcastic joke.

[AutobahnSHO]

You're taking his comment way too seriously. It's obviously a very sarcastic joke.

Mostly joke.

[GoCougs]

I dunno what you blokes keep carrying on about but minivans are fantastic vehicles. Many SUVs/CUVs mostly suck, at least per their actual use (people hauling).

And to add insult to injury, something like the Sienna with its 300 hp and 8sp AT would probably catch a good portion of the poser class off guard.

Thing is, a nice minivan (say the Sienna and Odyssey) are now very expensive vehicles - base MSRP is $30k for a stripper.

[AutobahnSHO]

I dunno what you blokes keep carrying on about but minivans are fantastic vehicles. Many SUVs/CUVs mostly suck, at least per their actual use (people hauling).

And to add insult to injury, something like the Sienna with its 300 hp and 8sp AT would probably catch a good portion of the poser class off guard.

Thing is, a nice minivan (say the Sienna and Odyssey) are now very expensive vehicles - base MSRP is $30k for a stripper.

I mess with people dragging from lights fairly often LOL.   I would LOVE the AWD version though because I could launch so much better. My slippery diff makes me have to roll slow to start with or spin a tire.   

Even at $30k, $5k extra for twice the seats and 50% more power than a Breeze Free twin ain't bad.

[68_427]

Pricing was just released for the Durango SRT.

$62K fuck you kids get a scholarship 😂

[AutobahnSHO]

Pricing was just released for the Durango SRT.

$62K fuck you kids get a scholarship 😂

I specified a Pacifica with every option I saw available and came out at $48,765. You cannot tell me the SUV is that much more to manufacture.
It's all about the cool points.

[68_427]

I specified a Pacifica with every option I saw available and came out at $48,765. You cannot tell me the SUV is that much more to manufacture.
It's all about the cool points.

Um yeah the cool points of a 6.4L Hemi, awd, big brakes, and real towing capabilities. 

[Lebowski]

$30k is still pretty good value compared to most new SUVs.

[BimmerM3]

$30k is still pretty good value compared to most new SUVs.

They both start about a grand less than their respective CUV counterparts (Highlander and Pilot).

EDIT: Plus the base Highlander has a smaller engine - add another $2k for the same engine as the Sienna.

[68_427]

Huh they did away with the 4cyl Sienna?  Good

[AutobahnSHO]

Huh they did away with the 4cyl Sienna?  Good

In 2004 I think.

[12,000 RPM]

I specified a Pacifica with every option I saw available and came out at $48,765. You cannot tell me the SUV is that much more to manufacture.
It's all about the cool points.

This means they are doing a good job. Everyone can't be Tesla and use govt subsidies to sell cars below cost.

[68_427]

In 2004 I think.

2012 it looks like


Oh and for 2017 it got the upgraded 3.5L with 296hp

[MX793]

In 2004 I think.

2012 it looks like


Oh and for 2017 it got the upgraded 3.5L with 296hp

The '03-'10 generation was V6-only.  The 2011 redesign brought back the 4-banger (the 2.7L from the Venza and Highlander) for a couple of years before dropping back to V6-only again.

[AutobahnSHO]

This means they are doing a good job. Everyone can't be Tesla and use govt subsidies to sell cars below cost.

Too true!!

[Soup DeVille]

I don't doubt it. One of these days I think it'll come back full circle and wagons will be cool again.

Wagons are cool.

Trust me on this.

[93JC]

Pretty soon you'll be a wagon-hipster, reminding us all

[SVT_Power]

I have not seen that hipster dude meme in a long time

[93JC]

Nor had I, it came to mind as I was writing the p0ast.

[Soup DeVille]

Pretty soon you'll be a wagon-hipster, reminding us all

Ehh. Whatever.
At least it's more practical than high wheeled bicycles.

[AutobahnSHO]

Minivans & SUVs= tall wagons.

[Raza]

You said "everyone." I'm sorry if you didn't say what you meant.

The fact that it's common doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

And no, a five figure vehicle purchase is not the same as a $70-200 shirt purchase.

I never said it was the same. I said everyone and meant it.

[Raza]

Wow, you guys are so sensitive about minivans. I had no idea.

[Raza]

Some more than others, and you more than most.

I assume your post was mostly sarcasm, if that's not the case then I have to agree with Sporty in that your obsession with image here is a bit absurd. It's one thing when image does not get in the way of living, as in dressing well, but to believe placing practicality ahead of image in a given case is "pathetic" or "surrendering your life" is, well, itself a bit pathetic and ironically is surrendering to your perception of the opinion of others (hint: nobody really cares).

Don't get so defensive, new papa.  But quick question--are you trading in the big manly truck for a minivan now that kid #2 is on the way?

Also as you know most people are not car enthusiasts. For those people (what, 90% of the population?) simply buying the most practical car while taking into account value is the optimal decision. Caring so much about image is why people make irrational decisions like having a perpetual car payment for a luxury car when the person doesn't even have any interest in cars.

And as such, they often make the decisions they make not out of purely rational behaviors.  There's a reason that minivans are no longer the overwhelming vehicle of choice for the moderately sized family (literally everyone on my block with up to 3 children has one or two SUVs, the only family with a minivan has three kids and a dog) and there's a reason that wagons have all but died in the US.  And that reason is image.  If every non-enthusiast cared about practical concerns over all else, minivans would be by far the highest selling segment in the US. 

So of course image matters, and of course it matters to people with varying degrees.  Pointing out that some people care about image more than others is as useful as pointing out that planes aren't boats.  It's so obvious, it didn't need to be said.  Jeep is Chrysler's most valuable brand.  SUV and truck sales continue to increase.  Companies invented new kinds of SUVs so they could sell more SUVs (like the BMW X6 or Nissan Juke). 

I'm not knocking people who choose to drive a minivan, because as has been mentioned by many, including myself in my VERY FIRST POST on the topic, they are incredibly practical and for some, especially larger, families, the best way to get around.  But I'm also not going to knock the people who don't want to buy a minivan because of the polo-tucked-into-pleated-pants-and-cell-phone-holster image that comes with the minivan.  No need to take everything so fucking personally.