C&D I'm not buying a minivan test

[Raza]

Liking how a car looks <> choosing a car to project a certain image

And lol @ either car being my first choice for looks or image. The main drivers of those purchases were boring things like reliability, practicality, comfort, value etc. If I were just going for looks/image I would probably have got an old Cayman S for me and probably a Range Rover Sport + warranty for wifey. I don't disagree that we all care about looks to some degree, but Raza seems to care beyond the point of it being fun/healthy.

Really?  The guy who wanted to buy a Civic and make it as fast as an Si because he didn't want an Si because it was too obvious.  And the guy who wanted a Camry on coilovers because it's counter to enthusiast culture.  Being willfully counterculture is still caring about image. 

[Raza]

You're taking his comment way too seriously. It's obviously a very sarcastic joke.

Mostly joke.

Yes, it was very sarcastic and mostly a joke, as Will points out.  But all jokes and all sarcasm comes from a kernel of truth.  I had no idea that it would get up the asses of people who don't actually have a minivan on an enthusiast site, but the one guy who does have a minivan is able to laugh at it or let it roll off.  The people who are taking it most personally (and responding by making personal statements) are the ones who weren't in the targeted group.  So strange.  Like I jokingly held up a mirror and they saw something they didn't want to see.  Lebowski especially can't miss an opportunity to try to take a swing at me, for whatever reason.

[12,000 RPM]

Really?  The guy who wanted to buy a Civic and make it as fast as an Si because he didn't want an Si because it was too obvious.  And the guy who wanted a Camry on coilovers because it's counter to enthusiast culture.  Being willfully counterculture is still caring about image.

No, I didn't get the Si because the engine was too noisy. And even the Camry on coilovers is still far more practical for a family than say, a Z4.

Bottom line, you're trying to turn this back on everyone else, but the point is your post about parents being "pathetic" and children being "soulsucking" was just an asshole thing to say.

[Lebowski]

Yes, it was very sarcastic and mostly a joke, as Will points out.  But all jokes and all sarcasm comes from a kernel of truth.  I had no idea that it would get up the asses of people who don't actually have a minivan on an enthusiast site, but the one guy who does have a minivan is able to laugh at it or let it roll off.  The people who are taking it most personally (and responding by making personal statements) are the ones who weren't in the targeted group.  So strange.  Like I jokingly held up a mirror and they saw something they didn't want to see.  Lebowski especially can't miss an opportunity to try to take a swing at me, for whatever reason.

What's more pathetic, driving a minivan or being obsessed with image?

[Raza]

No, I didn't get the Si because the engine was too noisy. And even the Camry on coilovers is still far more practical for a family than say, a Z4.

Bottom line, you're trying to turn this back on everyone else, but the point is your post about parents being "pathetic" and children being "soulsucking" was just an asshole thing to say.

Yeah, it was an asshole thing to say.  Look to the left of my post.  What word do you see under my avatar?

EDIT:  Oh wait, I forgot you've got a little one on the way too.  That explains the sensitivity.  Sorry dude, I didn't realize that it would set you off like that.  It wasn't personal.

[Raza]

What's more pathetic, driving a minivan or being obsessed with image?

Everyone cares about image.  You can care about image and still drive a minivan, you know.

[Lebowski]

Everyone cares about image.  You can care about image and still drive a minivan, you know.

No not everyone, and you are pretty far into the (right) tail of the 'cares about image' bell curve i.e. caring about image to the degree you do is not normal. 

[12,000 RPM]

Yeah, it was an asshole thing to say.  Look to the left of my post.  What word do you see under my avatar?

EDIT:  Oh wait, I forgot you've got a little one on the way too.  That explains the sensitivity.  Sorry dude, I didn't realize that it would set you off like that.  It wasn't personal.

Miss me with these Republican "Im sorry you took offense to that" apologies. If you're gonna be an asshole, be an asshole, don't apologize or try and blame other people for responding to an asshole appropriately. And just because you go out of your way to embody every negative BMW owner stereotype doesn't mean everyone who drives a type of car fits your preconceptions

[Raza]

Miss me with these Republican "Im sorry you took offense to that" apologies. If you're gonna be an asshole, be an asshole, don't apologize or try and blame other people for responding to an asshole appropriately. And just because you go out of your way to embody every negative BMW owner stereotype doesn't mean everyone who drives a type of car fits your preconceptions

I never take up more than one parking spot and I always signal.  So not every negative stereotype about BMW drivers.

But hey, if you say anything, you're probably going to offend someone.  I never intended to offend you specifically.  That has to count for something, right?

[Raza]

No not everyone, and you are pretty far into the (right) tail of the 'cares about image' bell curve i.e. caring about image to the degree you do is not normal.

Yes everyone. 

[12,000 RPM]

I never take up more than one parking spot and I always signal.  So not every negative stereotype about BMW drivers.

But hey, if you say anything, you're probably going to offend someone.  I never intended to offend you specifically.  That has to count for something, right?

Not necessarily. But saying kids are soul sucking and minivan drivers look pathetic and defeated.... will probably offend people with kids and minivan drivers. Not sure why you feel the need to defend yourself.... wasn't your intention to offend, asshole?

[mzziaz]

Hey, I like minivans. Wouldn't mind owning one.

[Raza]

Not necessarily. But saying kids are soul sucking and minivan drivers look pathetic and defeated.... will probably offend people with kids and minivan drivers. Not sure why you feel the need to defend yourself.... wasn't your intention to offend, asshole?

Hey, I tried to apologize. 

[AutobahnSHO]

trollery works best when the sarcasm and relevance are on point.

[Lebowski]

Yes everyone. 

You should get out more.

[2o6]

A great deal of people don't know how many doors their car has

[Raza]

You should get out more.

Perhaps you should be more self aware.

[Lebowski]

Perhaps you should be more self aware.

Right back at you.


The degree of concern you have for image is not normal, sorry.  That someone showers, flosses their teeth, and dresses decently well is not analogous to calling it pathetic to put practicality ahead of image.  The irony in your post is that it's the overly image conscious who have "surrendered their lives," in this case to insecurity, vanity, and the imagined perceptions of others (again, no one really cares).

[Raza]

Right back at you.


The degree of concern you have for image is not normal, sorry.  That someone showers, flosses their teeth, and dresses decently well is not analogous to calling it pathetic to put practicality ahead of image.  The irony in your post is that it's the overly image conscious who have "surrendered their lives," in this case to insecurity, vanity, and the imagined perceptions of others (again, no one really cares).

And yet, the simple fact remains that thousands upon thousands eschew buying a minivan for a less practical SUV because of....you guessed, image.

You never answered my question...are you trading in the SUV for a minivan now that kid #2 is on the way?  It would be more practical.

Don't quit your day job--the armchair internet psychologist thing isn't going to work out for you.

[Tave]

I actually if anything have a little extra respect for someone who can totally throw giving a shit about image to the wind and rock the minivan. I don't think I could do it, though.

[CALL_911]

Lol oh man.

Of course Raza's post was sarcastic and largely tongue-in-cheek. Yeah, he does care about image more than most, but so does Sporty. You also care about image, as do I, as does everyone in the fucking world. To what extent they care about image is totally irrelevant. This is easily one of the dumbest arguments I've read on this forum.

[Raza]

Lol oh man.

Of course Raza's post was sarcastic and largely tongue-in-cheek. Yeah, he does care about image more than most, but so does Sporty. You also care about image, as do I, as does everyone in the fucking world. To what extent they care about image is totally irrelevant. This is easily one of the dumbest arguments I've read on this forum.

Yeah, that's all probably true.

[Lebowski]

Big difference between saying I wouldn't want to do something and saying anyone who does is pathetic and surrendered their life.  Honestly from an image standpoint I could drive just about anything if I had to, as long as its reliable and clean.  Part of the reason I wouldn't drive a minivan is we just don't need that much space on a regular basis, as I believe I also said earlier in this thread (maybe was a different recent thread not sure).  If I needed regular seating for 7, sure, I'd consider a minivan.

As I said originally, sure there was a lot of sarcasm in that post, but as Raza said lotta truth too.  Just interesting to see such stones being lobbed from the biggest glass house on the block.

[GoCougs]

Big difference between saying I wouldn't want to do something and saying anyone who does is pathetic and surrendered their life.  Honestly from an image standpoint I could drive just about anything if I had to, as long as its reliable and clean.  Part of the reason I wouldn't drive a minivan is we just don't need that much space on a regular basis, as I believe I also said earlier in this thread (maybe was a different recent thread not sure).  If I needed regular seating for 7, sure, I'd consider a minivan.

As I said originally, sure there was a lot of sarcasm in that post, but as Raza said lotta truth too.  Just interesting to see such stones being lobbed from the biggest glass house on the block.

You should know by now Tave's StalkerSPIN is brutally efficient.

But yes, Raza is very delicate about these things.

[12,000 RPM]

A minivan is more practical if you need the room. If you only have 1-2 kids and no pets the size and worse fuel economy isn't worth it.

[MX793]

A minivan is more practical if you need the room. If you only have 1-2 kids and no pets the size and worse fuel economy isn't worth it.

Worse fuel economy than what?  A midsize, 2-row SUV or crossover doesn't really get any better mileage.  Even in FWD form, the midsize crossovers might have a 1 mpg advantage.

[12,000 RPM]

Worse fuel economy than what? 

The compact SUVs that are at the top of the sales charts. There's really no practical difference between something like a Rogue and a Murano WRT passenger or cargo space, but the Rogue is a good bit smaller and more fuel efficient.

[Lebowski]

I think he means vs a sedan (edit apparently small CUVs).


Up until this point, 4Runner has had plenty of room for us.  Now that we are officially a family of 4 (son born this past Wed) I think the 4Runner will still have plenty of room with the exception of a ~once a year week long trip where we take the dogs (for shorter weekend trips with the dogs like to my parents 4Runner should still have enough room), I think for now it probably makes the most sense to just rent something for that one week a year.  I have no desire to be one of those parents who takes so much shit to go with a child they need a full sized SUV for a weekend ... my brother for example has a GL450 and a Sequoia and 2 kids, and I recall said couldn't fit all their baby related shit into the GL for a few days at the beach.

4Runner is now approaching 100k miles so not sure what eventual replacement will be or when (not in a rush).

[CALL_911]

Congratulations on your son. Now get a Land Cruiser

[12,000 RPM]

Congrats man. I love off topic big life announcements.

Wifey and I realized long ago a lot of people are terrible at logistics, which prompts shit like a Sequoia for a family of 4. After spending 3 years in that tiny ass NYC apartment I think we'll be able to make our cars work.