WTF is being a car enthusiast, after all?

[giant_mtb]

I'll occasionally go out and roast the tires on some modern hotrod with 400+ HP.

I can only assume these are customers' vehicles...

[shp4man]

I can only assume these are customers' vehicles...

Trade ins! Gotta check 'em out...

[giant_mtb]

Trade ins! Gotta check 'em out...

Okay good.  In that case, carry on.

[Rupert]

For the most part that's true and no way am I claiming the average high end car buyer is an Enthusiast ... but at the same time IMO the average person does still have 'some' interest in cars.

Just makes no sense to have a scale where there's no way to have below average interest.

Scale is 1 to 10, median American enthusiasm would be a 2, mean probably 3. Tens devote their life to cars. I'm a 6, have been as high as 7.8.

[Raza]

Not to be a r0tor, but I don't see how this is possible when you haven't turned a wrench and you don't do any kind of track stuff regularly. How did you arrive at this score? I'd put you at about a 3.

Enthusiasm isn't defined by being a mechanic or having a track available to you. You don't even like cars anymore, you think a motorized bicycle is the best way to get around. Who are you to judge?

[Laconian]

No, he's back to the cager fold. He realized that motorcycle vehicles are the best way to kill oneself.

[MexicoCityM3]

No, he's back to the cager fold. He realized that motorcycle vehicles are the best way to kill oneself.

Statistically, about 35 times more likely to die on a bike than in a car. I like bikes and in the past toyed with the idea of getting one. Even took a two-day riding class. In the end, I never could make that 35:1 proportion worth it to me. Not a bike enthusiast definitely.

[12,000 RPM]

Enthusiasm isn't defined by being a mechanic or having a track available to you. You don't even like cars anymore, you think a motorized bicycle is the best way to get around. Who are you to judge?

OK then.... if enjoying cars in ways besides commuting isn't enthusiasm then what is, and what makes you an 8.5-9 out of 10? Even for subjectively derived numbers there has to be some kind of defined methodology.

Not sure how I am not into cars either. I'm on Jalopnik/TTAC/here talking about cars every day; I play Forza every day; I have dumped thousands of dollars and dozens of hours into modifying the G and I chose it over many more rational choices solely due to how it looks/drives. Am I not an enthusiast because IDGAF about stickshift or decreeing who is or isn't an enthusiast?

[12,000 RPM]

Statistically, about 35 times more likely to die on a bike than in a car.

On the street, sure, which is why I'm selling the bike and just doing track rentals. On the track the risk is still higher but not 35x as high. There hasn't been a death- car or bike- at the track I went to in over a decade.

Oh and Raza, regarding track access- there are several go kart tracks in the Philly area, and NJMP is a whopping hour away. But in typing that I had a revelation. There are car enthusiasts, and then there are driving enthusiasts. That's the difference between us. I know and like cars, but my real passion is the skill of driving. Anyone with enough money can buy a nice car with the right badge, and my mom can drive stick. There's not much to car ownership. But learning to drive at the limit and actually using a vehicle's full dynamic abilities (as well as your own)- that's something special IMO. And you don't need a nice car (or your own car at all) do that. So is one better than the other? Probably not; but to my eye a lot of times "car" enthusiasm is just another vessel for consumerism, while "driving" enthusiasm is the continued learning of a skill.

[MexicoCityM3]

On the street, sure, which is why I'm selling the bike and just doing track rentals. On the track the risk is still higher but not 35x as high. There hasn't been a death- car or bike- at the track I went to in over a decade.

Oh and Raza, regarding track access- there are several go kart tracks in the Philly area, and NJMP is a whopping hour away. But in typing that I had a revelation. There are car enthusiasts, and then there are driving enthusiasts. That's the difference between us. I know and like cars, but my real passion is the skill of driving. Anyone with enough money can buy a nice car with the right badge, and my mom can drive stick. There's not much to car ownership. But learning to drive at the limit and actually using a vehicle's full dynamic abilities (as well as your own)- that's something special IMO. And you don't need a nice car (or your own car at all) do that. So is one better than the other? Probably not; but to my eye a lot of times "car" enthusiasm is just another vessel for consumerism, while "driving" enthusiasm is the continued learning of a skill.

Glad I found a post of yours that I fully agree with.

Definitely car enthusiasm is different from driving enthusiasm. Sometimes they go together. I like both about equally. Maybe a bit more the driving part.

[12,000 RPM]

The older I get, the more I shift to driving enthuiasm and away from car enthusiasm. There is definitely a lot to enjoy about cars themselves, but I feel like a lot of the time is just comes down to committing to spend and getting the right car/features. Not much skill in that, vs becoming a better driver. It's kind of like being a big music buff and having a nice top of the line stereo vs actually making music. Not to say driving enthusiasm can't become a pissing contest either, but to a large degree that is kind of the point, which makes it OK (to a degree).

[CaminoRacer]

I'd break it down further:

- car enthusiast
- driving enthusiast
- mechanic enthusiast

I'd qualify as all 3, but I lean more heavily toward the mechanics and building than most people. I enjoy driving, but a lot of the satisfaction I get is from solving problems and improving a build, and knowing that I built something that can go 80 mph down the highway.

[MexicoCityM3]

I'd break it down further:

- car enthusiast
- driving enthusiast
- mechanic enthusiast

I'd qualify as all 3, but I lean more heavily toward the mechanics and building than most people. I enjoy driving, but a lot of the satisfaction I get is from solving problems and improving a build, and knowing that I built something that can go 80 mph down the highway.

Agree on the breakdown. I even think we can add "racing enthusiast". I, for example, enjoy track driving but almost don't care about following racing series.

[dazzleman]

Well, with Lebowski's M3->CR-V thread for the ages still going on I thought we might splinter this discussion off into a separate thread.

Beyond Cougs' always helpful monday morning psychoanalyzing and financial advice, I think there is room for an interesting debate even with him!

I maintain that all kinds of "enthusiasm" for something imply emotion necessarily. And in that following such emotions, we set aside more practical or "rational" concerns. Being finances, time spent on the "enthusiasm" instead of on other, more prudent endeavours.

In my case, my car "enthusiasm" derives from my relationship with my father. It's been my shared interest with him since I was a kid and bonded an otherwise sometimes quite rocky relationship. Speed and the risk that it entails I must admit that for many years was an outlet for misplaced emotions too.

As i've grown older (read: matured) and especially becoming a dad has cars in a bit of the backburner, at least as a financial priority. But I still enjoy the cars very much. Just yesterday I took the E46 out to stretch its legs on some nearby roads.

I'm going to have to say I probably lean more to Cougs' opinion than to yours.

I think being an enthusiast can certainly mean spending more than necessary on a car, and I have certainly done that in my life.  But I don't think it means you must compromise your financial stability and give up necessities in other areas of your life to allocated excessive amounts of money to expensive cars.

I see being an enthusiast as more fun than necessity.  Even enthusiasts don't need to overspend on cars, but if they enjoy it and can afford it, then I think it's fine.

[Morris Minor]

Historically 7.5. Now a 6: a function of age and a shift of priorities.
I'm told that, at age four, I used to carry tools around for my dad while he was wrenching cars. So I got my enthusiasm from him.
Best car I ever drove for stoplight to stoplight traffic? A Prius - no question. I loved it for its rationality.  I don't think that appreciation of its qualities negates enthusiast credentials. And there is a big community of Prius lovers out there - enthusiastic and knowledgeable people... for a car most car enthusiasts consider to be an appliance.

The Car Enthusiasm tent is a big one.

[12,000 RPM]

Yes, there are definitely many facets, all legitimate. Hence all the infighting

[ifcar]

I'd break it down further:

- car enthusiast
- driving enthusiast
- mechanic enthusiast

I'd qualify as all 3, but I lean more heavily toward the mechanics and building than most people. I enjoy driving, but a lot of the satisfaction I get is from solving problems and improving a build, and knowing that I built something that can go 80 mph down the highway.

You could also add "classic car enthusiast" (great interest in cars that stops well before the current decade) and something like "specific-car enthusiast," which would be someone who's greatly interested in one specific model or brand but not really anything else automotive.

[Raza]

OK then.... if enjoying cars in ways besides commuting isn't enthusiasm then what is, and what makes you an 8.5-9 out of 10? Even for subjectively derived numbers there has to be some kind of defined methodology.

Made me an 8.5 to 9, back in the day. I spent hours a day reading reviews, from US and UK car mags, watching Top Gear, memorizing statistics, playing GT and Forza. Now I don't have the level of enthusiasm I used to. That's why I gave myself a current 6 or something. I don't do a lot of that anymore and I can tell that I'm not as excited about cars as I used to be--a natural reaction to most cars, even performance cars, not being worth getting excited over anymore.

Not sure how I am not into cars either. I'm on Jalopnik/TTAC/here talking about cars every day; I play Forza every day; I have dumped thousands of dollars and dozens of hours into modifying the G and I chose it over many more rational choices sololy due to how it looks/drives. Am I not an enthusiast because IDGAF about stickshift or decreeing who is or isn't an enthusiast?

You spent years basically saying that you don't like cars anymore and only enjoy motorcycles. Hard to be a car enthusiast when you only enjoy motorcycles.

[Raza]

On the street, sure, which is why I'm selling the bike and just doing track rentals. On the track the risk is still higher but not 35x as high. There hasn't been a death- car or bike- at the track I went to in over a decade.

Oh and Raza, regarding track access- there are several go kart tracks in the Philly area, and NJMP is a whopping hour away. But in typing that I had a revelation. There are car enthusiasts, and then there are driving enthusiasts. That's the difference between us. I know and like cars, but my real passion is the skill of driving. Anyone with enough money can buy a nice car with the right badge, and my mom can drive stick. There's not much to car ownership. But learning to drive at the limit and actually using a vehicle's full dynamic abilities (as well as your own)- that's something special IMO. And you don't need a nice car (or your own car at all) do that. So is one better than the other? Probably not; but to my eye a lot of times "car" enthusiasm is just another vessel for consumerism, while "driving" enthusiasm is the continued learning of a skill.

I may not have the track time that you do, but I've taken performance driving classes, driven on a track, driven go karts, and the like. Excuse me for not having free time to spend every entire Saturday at a track in fucking New Jersey for the last 8 years. 

[Payman]

What a load of shit. Some days, I'll take an hour or so and just go for a drive on the local backroads near the lake. It was especially awesome in the Miata, but I still do it in the Focus as well. Sporty will not convince me that I'm not a driving enthusiast because I don't do weekly track days or take lessons to improve my skills. 

[12,000 RPM]

Nobody said anything about weekly track days. Dont do that.

And Raza even while I was in motorcycle mode I was still playing Forza almost daily and following the industry. Modern cars are a bit boring.... iterative and strangled by shareholders and regulators. Outside of Tesla, which has its own problems, what is there to be excited about? Even shit like the Ford GT is just the same old same old... "some engineers working in secret to build a race car for the street" Wow, just what we needed. Where are the new ideas? So on the car side no I'm not very excited, there's no reason to be. But driving is still driving, thank God.

[MexicoCityM3]

Nobody said anything about weekly track days. Dont do that.

And Raza even while I was in motorcycle mode I was still playing Forza almost daily and following the industry. Modern cars are a bit boring.... iterative and strangled by shareholders and regulators. Outside of Tesla, which has its own problems, what is there to be excited about? Even shit like the Ford GT is just the same old same old... "some engineers working in secret to build a race car for the street" Wow, just what we needed. Where are the new ideas? So on the car side no I'm not very excited, there's no reason to be. But driving is still driving, thank God.

Videogaming enthusiast, then.

[giant_mtb]

What a load of shit. Some days, I'll take an hour or so and just go for a drive on the local backroads near the lake. It was especially awesome in the Miata, but I still do it in the Focus as well. Sporty will not convince me that I'm not a driving enthusiast because I don't do weekly track days or take lessons to improve my skills. 

Don't worry. Sporty has done one track day in his life. lol

[CaminoRacer]

Bro Ford GTs are awesome.

[Cookie Monster]

Don't worry. Sporty has done one track day in his life. lol

[CaminoRacer]

Track days are lame. Wheel to wheel racing is the bar for enthusiasm

[giant_mtb]

Also, lol @ playing Forza as a measure of car enthusiasm.  By that logic, I'm clearly a combat enthusiast since I play COD.

[Cookie Monster]

After yesterday's shenanigans over installing a skid plate under my car, I'd like to reassess my enthusiasm and rate myself at a 2.

[FoMoJo]

After yesterday's shenanigans over installing a skid plate under my car, I'd like to reassess my enthusiasm and rate myself at a 2.

Bruised a few knuckles did you?

[MexicoCityM3]

Also, lol @ playing Forza as a measure of car enthusiasm.  By that logic, I'm clearly a combat enthusiast since I play COD.

I am a world domination and conquest enthusiast then.