C7 ZR1 leaked

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

There's no way GM will put a V6 in a Vette! You think Ford caught hell for using a V6 in the new GT? Vette guys would never forgive GM for that! If you want a V6 sports car buy a Camaro or go elsewhere.......

[Galaxy]

There's no way GM will put a V6 in a Vette! You think Ford caught hell for using a V6 in the new GT? Vette guys would never forgive GM for that! If you want a V6 sports car buy a Camaro or go elsewhere.......

I would not bet money on that.

[Payman]

The first 'Vette had a 6.

[GoCougs]

I would not bet money on that.

I think I would.

The cost differential between a DOHC V6 and pooprod V8 can't be a lot. On the Silverado, all else the same, it's only a $1,200 charge to move from a pooprod V6 to the 5.3L pooprod V8 (and a DOHC V6 is obviously more expensive than a pooprod V6). Designing a rear transaxle for just the V6 could very well be cost prohibitive. Even if so, that, plus samller brakes/wheels/tires, all told, I bet you'd not be looking at more than $5,000 or so savings, and that's on a ~$55,000 car. I think it's the case of the 1er or CLA - it'd be so decontented the existing customer base wouldn't really be too interested.

[Soup DeVille]

There's no way GM will put a V6 in a Vette! You think Ford caught hell for using a V6 in the new GT? Vette guys would never forgive GM for that! If you want a V6 sports car buy a Camaro or go elsewhere.......

They'd have to do a twin turbo first; and sell it as a new breed of Vette. Performance would have to
nip at the heels of the regular Vette, but the whole package would be marketed as a little more raw. Less comfort, more Serious Business.

That would sell; then after its established, you unveil the NA "club sport" V6 Vette.

[Onslaught]

That's the #1 way to make a car faster.

Boost the power then improve the chassis to be able to handle it.

I'd argue that making a car lighter is the number one way. And it improves everything else.

[CaminoRacer]

Whoa

[Payman]

I'd argue that making a car lighter is the number one way. And it improves everything else.

With 5 posts, you don't get an opinion yet. Noob.

[Onslaught]

With 5 posts, you don't get an opinion yet. Noob.

Can I buy points?

[MX793]

I think I would.

The cost differential between a DOHC V6 and pooprod V8 can't be a lot. On the Silverado, all else the same, it's only a $1,200 charge to move from a pooprod V6 to the 5.3L pooprod V8 (and a DOHC V6 is obviously more expensive than a pooprod V6). Designing a rear transaxle for just the V6 could very well be cost prohibitive. Even if so, that, plus samller brakes/wheels/tires, all told, I bet you'd not be looking at more than $5,000 or so savings, and that's on a ~$55,000 car. I think it's the case of the 1er or CLA - it'd be so decontented the existing customer base wouldn't really be too interested.

What automakers charge for options isn't necessarily reflective of the actual cost to implement them.  There are also economies of scale benefits that come with the 5.3.  The 4.3 V6 is only offered in the lowest trims of the half-ton truck line.  The V8s (5.3 and 6.2) are used in a wider range of vehicles and sell in higher volumes.  And, since the 5.3 is just a de-bored version of the 6.2, there is more that can be shared (like crankshafts).

Why would they need to completely redesign the transaxle for a V6?  Different gear ratios, sure, but they change up the gear ratios (and gear strength) depending on which of the V8 motors is equipped.  Also, the transmission sections of the Vette's transaxle are heavily based on non-transaxle transmissions used in many other GM vehicles (like the 8L90 8AT).

[Payman]

The 3.6 V6 in the Camaro is a jewel. I just checked the configurator and it starts at $27K. The 6.2 V8 starts at $37K. A Corvette with the 3.6, and 300-400 lbs trimmed off, coming in at $45,000 would do just fine, IMHO.

[GoCougs]

What automakers charge for options isn't necessarily reflective of the actual cost to implement them.  There are also economies of scale benefits that come with the 5.3.  The 4.3 V6 is only offered in the lowest trims of the half-ton truck line.  The V8s (5.3 and 6.2) are used in a wider range of vehicles and sell in higher volumes.  And, since the 5.3 is just a de-bored version of the 6.2, there is more that can be shared (like crankshafts).

Sure there is definable correlation, otherwise the cost differentiation would not exist.

Why would they need to completely redesign the transaxle for a V6?  Different gear ratios, sure, but they change up the gear ratios (and gear strength) depending on which of the V8 motors is equipped.  Also, the transmission sections of the Vette's transaxle are heavily based on non-transaxle transmissions used in many other GM vehicles (like the 8L90 8AT).

That was the Presumed Proffered Premise ("drive line wouldn't have to be as heavy duty"); weaker motor = opportunity for less expensive transaxle.

[GoCougs]

The 3.6 V6 in the Camaro is a jewel. I just checked the configurator and it starts at $27K. The 6.2 V8 starts at $37K. A Corvette with the 3.6, and 300-400 lbs trimmed off, coming in at $45,000 would do just fine, IMHO.

The V6 Camaro is a beast no doubt but the $27k base V6 model is a rental fleet grade, which has been part of the Camaro lineup since day one. The Corvette has never had such a trim level.

[MX793]

Sure there is definable correlation, otherwise the cost differentiation would not exist.

Do you think it costs GM $10K more to build an Escalade vs a Yukon Denali?

Do you think the Turbo-4 banger in the Explorer costs $900 more to make than the DOHC V6 base engine?  Do you think Ford's 3.5TT V6 costs $2K more to make than the 2.7TT V6?

[GoCougs]

Actually, you have to subtract out the margin; i.e., the difference to build is not the difference in revenue. In theory, cost is not a factor in price - it's what the market will bear, but yes, yes and yes, in principal; if it costs more to purchase the model/option it costs the automaker more to make it.

[Onslaught]

Well that's not always true. When the MX-5 came out people paid way over the sticker price for it. So they just raised the price right after that with no changes to the car.

[Xer0]

The 3.6 V6 in the Camaro is a jewel. I just checked the configurator and it starts at $27K. The 6.2 V8 starts at $37K. A Corvette with the 3.6, and 300-400 lbs trimmed off, coming in at $45,000 would do just fine, IMHO.

There's no way Chevy is trimming 400lbs by using the V6.  The V6 Camaro vs V8 Camaro is around 200 lbs and that also includes bigger brakes, 20in vs 18in wheels, an LSD, and tons of extra cooling in the V8 car.  I also doubt there is 10K that GM can easily take out of the Vette to make this hypothetical car exist.

[Payman]

There's no way Chevy is trimming 400lbs by using the V6.  The V6 Camaro vs V8 Camaro is around 200 lbs and that also includes bigger brakes, 20in vs 18in wheels, an LSD, and tons of extra cooling in the V8 car.  I also doubt there is 10K that GM can easily take out of the Vette to make this hypothetical car exist.

There's more to trimming than just the engine. Lots of components can be trimmed down or swapped out for lighter ones. If GM can make the entry level V6 Camaro priced $10K less than the entry V8, it's not impossible to make an entry level 'Vette come in at $12-15K less than the Stingray. $63,000+ is still just out of range for most people, and the $30K range already has several sportscar options. The $40-50K range is an unfilled sweet spot, IMHO.

[MX793]

There's more to trimming than just the engine. Lots of components can be trimmed down or swapped out for lighter ones. If GM can make the entry level V6 Camaro priced $10K less than the entry V8, it's not impossible to make an entry level 'Vette come in at $12-15K less than the Stingray. $63,000+ is still just out of range for most people, and the $30K range already has several sportscar options. The $40-50K range is an unfilled sweet spot, IMHO.

Camaro is on a shared platform with several other vehicles.  Vette is bespoke and fabricated using more expensive methods (hydroformed frame).  Economies of scale.

[Payman]

Camaro is on a shared platform with several other vehicles.  Vette is bespoke and fabricated using more expensive methods (hydroformed frame).  Economies of scale.

Right, economies of scale. 100,000 units of the platform vs 40,000. (Unsure the numbers, but the point stands).

Hell, dust of the Kappa (Solstice/Sky). It was an excellent yet underutilized platform.

[CaminoRacer]

It costs MORE money to strip weight. Not less

[Payman]

You guys suck.

[MX793]

Right, economies of scale. 100,000 units of the platform vs 40,000. (Unsure the numbers, but the point stands).

Hell, dust of the Kappa (Solstice/Sky). It was an excellent yet underutilized platform.

It was also a really compromised platform.  No trunk space, clunky roof mechanism, and it used a very similar frame, fabricated using the same expensive process, as the Vette.  The Colorado pickup transmission paired with an engine to which the ratios weren't set up for didn't help much either.

[Payman]

It was also a really compromised platform.  No trunk space, clunky roof mechanism, and it used a very similar frame, fabricated using the same expensive process, as the Vette.  The Colorado pickup transmission paired with an engine to which the ratios weren't set up for didn't help much either.

None of this has anything to do with the basic platform, except the fabrication part. They were still able to crank out $25K sportscars with this platform.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

The first 'Vette had a 6.

And it was 2 seconds from being CANCELLED! The V8 saved it! 

Whoa

  The cost of Tooling ALONE at the Plant wouldn't be worth it. If you want the V6 buy a Camaro!

[MX793]

None of this has anything to do with the basic platform, except the fabrication part. They were still able to crank out $25K sportscars with this platform.

Which received mediocre reviews and sold poorly.  The lack of storage space (by even small roadster standards) and poorly executed convertible top were inherent to the platform.  Much like the Fiero before it, the Skystice was a great concept foiled by parts-bin engineering.

[GoCougs]

There's no way Chevy is trimming 400lbs by using the V6.  The V6 Camaro vs V8 Camaro is around 200 lbs and that also includes bigger brakes, 20in vs 18in wheels, an LSD, and tons of extra cooling in the V8 car.  I also doubt there is 10K that GM can easily take out of the Vette to make this hypothetical car exist.

Much of the Corvette's price premium is tied up in the space frame chassis, plastic/fantastic body panels and rear-mount transaxle. All those things would remain for a V6 option. The only way to suck $10k out of it is by virtually killing it - cloth interior, rental spec wheels/tires, no infotainment, etc. Virtually no one would buy such a thing. They'd take their $45k and buy a loaded Camaro 2SS, which would be its better in all objective and subjective measures.

[12,000 RPM]

Transaxle has to stay, but I wonder if there would be significant net benefits to moving to a conventional platform. Odd, given that Alpha sacrificed so much for sportiness (to the point that they cannot build crossovers off of it) that they did not use it for the Vette. Starting with the Vette as the base for that platform kind of makes sense. "Derived from the Corvette" has a good marketing ring to it... much better than "Tuned 3000 miles away"

[Payman]

Much of the Corvette's price premium is tied up in the space frame chassis, plastic/fantastic body panels and rear-mount transaxle. All those things would remain for a V6 option. The only way to suck $10k out of it is by virtually killing it - cloth interior, rental spec wheels/tires, no infotainment, etc. Virtually no one would buy such a thing. They'd take their $45k and buy a loaded Camaro 2SS, which would be its better in all objective and subjective measures.

I'd certainly buy it over a $45,000 Camaro.

[2o6]

Transaxle has to stay, but I wonder if there would be significant net benefits to moving to a conventional platform. Odd, given that Alpha sacrificed so much for sportiness (to the point that they cannot build crossovers off of it) that they did not use it for the Vette. Starting with the Vette as the base for that platform kind of makes sense. "Derived from the Corvette" has a good marketing ring to it... much better than "Tuned 3000 miles away"

because making a near-supercar level coupe off a sedan chassis nets you a 350Z.