Ford on death watch

[93JC]

Explorers, F-150s and Transits are commonplace in the police fleets here, but Taurus Police Interceptors are too. Pretty much the entire Calgary Police Service fleet is composed of Fords.

Chargers and Tahoes here.

They had a few Chargers and Tauruses when they started replacing the Crown Vics, but the Taurus was preferred and they've been buying those (and Explorers and F-150s) since. (Transits are the common paddywagons now; they used to be E-series Fords, and before that Dodge Ram Vans.)

[Soup DeVille]

The CV was LWB in NYC, and maybe a few other big cities where a partition was used. But I don't think I've ever seen a LWB CV in person.

No, not any I ever rode in. I'm sure there were some- but it certainly wasn't universal.

[12,000 RPM]

Yea CVs were a mix in NYC. My knees used to bang on the cabbie guard in the SWB ones. They were pretty shitty cars and def nothing for Ford  to bet their future on... especially with the complaints of the Fiesta/Focus/Fusion being too old.

Regarding r0tor's other suggestions.... GT was flat out irresponsible and a waste of resources. Halo cars don't drive sales. And V8s are increasingly irrelevant to the car buying public. GM just put a 4 banger in its full size pickup truck. You can buy an $80K 4 banger sedan from any of the Germans, and it will be as fast as their V8 cars from ~15 years ago.

Ford should have followed Toyota's playbook. Car buyers are easily fooled. If the car *looks* all new, for all intents and purposes it is. The Camry went through 3 body styles on the same platform. Maybe 4? But they improved where it mattered to customers. Ford has had some real stinkers.... Powershift, MySYNC, "Eco"boost.... Ford has dived headfirst into some empty swimming pools, I think to get some splashy new feature to market. They weren't ready at launch and by the time they got fixed nobody cared. Combine that with their addiction to incentives.... they've dug the brand into a hole I don't know that they can get it out of.

[r0tor]

Yes, you can buy a 4 banger that's as fast as a V8 in 15 years ago.  They are common, sound shitty, boring, and don't draw people into showrooms.  If Ford had a RWD biased AWD SUV (say JGC/x5 competitor) with a voodoo... dealerships would go broke replacing their front doors.

Also then make a turbo 6 version cheap to sell to the masses that you drew into the showroom.

[12,000 RPM]

Most German cars have 4 bangers these days. They have no problem bringing people into showrooms. A V8 RWD sedan sounds awesome but would be a complete waste of time and money. And the next Explorer will be the RWD JGC fighter you're hoping for. We'll see if that actually helps any.

[2o6]

No one cares about dynamics



Ford would have done better by making the focus, fiesta and fusion lines more profitable. The problem isn't volume, it's profitability

[veeman]

GM sells 5 times as many cars in China as Ford does.

[r0tor]

No one cares about dynamics



Ford would have done better by making the focus, fiesta and fusion lines more profitable. The problem isn't volume, it's profitability

We say this and sedan sales have fallen off a cliff - why?  Is it because sedan became the typical boring ass camry to the point that made consumers ask why not just be equally bored while driving an SUV

[12,000 RPM]

We say this and sedan sales have fallen off a cliff - why?  Is it because sedan became the typical boring ass camry to the point that made consumers ask why not just be equally bored while driving an SUV

I had 3 Accords from "the glory days".... they were boring AF to drive stock, and even modified didn't compare to a bone stock Prelude

Dynamics don't matter, halo cars don't matter, V8s don't matter. I can point to SEVERAL recent failures with each approach, or just point to Toyota's success without any of that teenage auto exec bullshit.

[FoMoJo]

It mostly has to do with marketing.

[veeman]

The Explorer Firestone tires blowing out and killing people really hurt Ford's pocketbook and reputation.  This is a great story -

https://www.carprousa.com/true-stories-former-car-dealer-firestone

[12,000 RPM]

Wow the M. Night Shamalan plot twist.

[Soup DeVille]

The Explorer Firestone tires blowing out and killing people really hurt Ford's pocketbook and reputation.  This is a great story -

https://www.carprousa.com/true-stories-former-car-dealer-firestone

The Firestone/Ford connection goes way back- local lore is that Firestone developed the first wide, lower pressure tires for Ford- officially for dirt racing, but in reality to stop the problem of cars dropping through the ice in Lake St. Clair while on their way back from Canada while filled with booze from the Hiram Walker distillery (another long time connection)

[r0tor]

I had 3 Accords from "the glory days".... they were boring AF to drive stock, and even modified didn't compare to a bone stock Prelude

Dynamics don't matter, halo cars don't matter, V8s don't matter. I can point to SEVERAL recent failures with each approach, or just point to Toyota's success without any of that teenage auto exec bullshit.

You do realize that FCA's future road map for dodge revolves around V8s and performance

[FoMoJo]

The Explorer Firestone tires blowing out and killing people really hurt Ford's pocketbook and reputation.  This is a great story -

https://www.carprousa.com/true-stories-former-car-dealer-firestone

Good story.  Not many realize that Ford replaced all the Firestone tires at their expense; even though the fault was Firestone's.

[12,000 RPM]

You do realize that FCA's future road map for dodge revolves around V8s and performance

Which is why FCA's debt ratings are junk

[r0tor]

FCA is a ship trying to be righted... Ford is a ship on its way to sinking

Opposite reasons for bad credit ratings

[2o6]

GM sells 5 times as many cars in China as Ford does.

Yeah, Buick does super well. Also, their partnership with SAIC is smart.

[2o6]

We say this and sedan sales have fallen off a cliff - why?  Is it because sedan became the typical boring ass camry to the point that made consumers ask why not just be equally bored while driving an SUV

You realize I said it's profitability, not volume, right? Ford making "better" sedans doesn't mean shit if they're not profitable.

[Soup DeVille]

FCA is a ship trying to be righted... Ford is a ship on its way to sinking

Opposite reasons for bad credit ratings

Yes, clearly nobody at Ford is trying to fix anything.

[shp4man]

Ford isn't going to sink anytime soon. Trust me on this one. 

[FoMoJo]

It's pretty clear that SUVs, CUVs, Crossovers, et al are increasing in sales whereas sedans are falling off.  Ford is smart to focus their future products along these lines.   

[Laconian]

Yeah, Buick does super well. Also, their partnership with SAIC is smart.

You can't sell in China without a partner company. Not allowed.

[12,000 RPM]

Ford isn't going to sink anytime soon. Trust me on this one. 

Why, because you are a Ford mechanic?

FCA is a ship trying to be righted... Ford is a ship on its way to sinking

Opposite reasons for bad credit ratings

Ah so credit ratings are only bad when the company isn't doing what you like.

No, FCA's teenage auto exec plan of more V8s and RWD sedans is a fast track to bankruptcy. Plus everything Ford did, FCA did worse. FCA was out of the FWD car business long before Ford, and their own CEO said their cars sucked. What few small cars they sell around the world are way older and worse than Ford's offerings. And so on and so forth.

[shp4man]

Why, because you are a Ford mechanic?
Ah so credit ratings are only bad when the company isn't doing what you like.

No, FCA's teenage auto exec plan of more V8s and RWD sedans is a fast track to bankruptcy. Plus everything Ford did, FCA did worse. FCA was out of the FWD car business long before Ford, and their own CEO said their cars sucked. What few small cars they sell around the world are way older and worse than Ford's offerings. And so on and so forth.

I have no loyalty to Ford. I just have to deal with their systems every day. So far, not even a hint of problems.

[2o6]

You can't sell in China without a partner company. Not allowed.

GM/SAIC also created Baojun, a cheap outlet that sells smartly styled suv's. Ford also has joint ventures and they don't seem to be as well managed as GM/SAIC.

[Soup DeVille]

Its odd, because I always understood the old Chinese cars like the Honqi were more or less Ford-derived.

Maybe that works against them more than anything.

[2o6]

Its odd, because I always understood the old Chinese cars like the Honqi were more or less Ford-derived.

Maybe that works against them more than anything.

FAW uses a lot of Mazda chassis, and I think very old Hongqi limos we're Chinese styled ZIL limos, which were more Chrysler in origin. Even the Honqi 100 and older sedans were basically a CKD Audi 1000 with a Chrysler K car engine in it.

I don't think any manufacturer really uses or clones Ford parts. They tend to gravitate towards GM, Daihatsu/Toyota, VW, or Citroen/Peugeot parts. Usually powered by a Mitsubishi engine.

[12,000 RPM]

I have no loyalty to Ford. I just have to deal with their systems every day. So far, not even a hint of problems.

Weren't you just crying about them always breaking from the Chinese and Mexican parts in them?

[Soup DeVille]

FAW uses a lot of Mazda chassis, and I think very old Hongqi limos we're Chinese styled ZIL limos, which were more Chrysler in origin. Even the Honqi 100 and older sedans were basically a CKD Audi 1000 with a Chrysler K car engine in it.

I don't think any manufacturer really uses or clones Ford parts. They tend to gravitate towards GM, Daihatsu/Toyota, VW, or Citroen/Peugeot parts. Usually powered by a Mitsubishi engine.

Volgas for years were basically restyled Ford clones, and I was under the impression Honqis were Chinese Volgas.