2019 BMW 3 Series G20: This Is It!

[12,000 RPM]

I mean... Longer wheelbase, electric steering, automatic transmission, "comfort"...

It's no knock, but the same money probably could have bought an M240i 6MT. Hell I think even a 340i can be had in the mid 50s. ATS too. Not knocking the purchase but if driving engagement is the driver there are def other choices.

[r0tor]

I drove the 340i... It was a fast boring pig.

The Giulia is everything that makes a sports sedan a great sports sedan - fantastic handling, brakes, compliance, and practicality.  The engine is also way above OK.

[Xer0]

It looks better than the current gen at least 

Lets wait for the M cars before we write off the dynamics. 

[12,000 RPM]

Lets wait for the M cars before we write off the dynamics.

This alone is an indictment on the current state of BMW. We didn't used to have to wait.

[BimmerM3]

This alone is an indictment on the current state of BMW. We didn't used to have to wait.

Yup.

[Xer0]

I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys, BMW is only going to build the cars that people actually buy and when it comes to wanting sporty and with a manual, that means M cars. 

[12,000 RPM]

I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys, BMW is only going to build the cars that people actually buy and when it comes to wanting sporty and with a manual, that means M cars.

For sure... my "indictment" was in the context of dynamics. Normal 3s used to lead the segment for everything dynamics related; the notion that now you have to get an M-car for good dynamics is enough to write them off. That's not to say the 3 is a bad car- I'd get one over all it's dynamically superior competition- but still....

[Xer0]

I still don't think that's fair.  Think about what was in the same class as the 3er when it was the top of the heap, so around the E36/46.  It was mostly garbage.  The C class was a joke, the A4 or whatever it was called before was only taken seriously in the occasional S-guise, the Lexus ES just didn't care to be hustled, the Acura TL/CL-S were okay I guess, and I can't even remember what Infinit was pushing.  It was by default the only choice if you wanted anything resembling driving fun.  Now though?  Decent driving machines in this class are everywhere.  I don't think BMW has changed it philosophy on the 3er much honestly, its just everyone else has gotten so much better that it looks like they dropped the ball.

[BimmerM3]

For sure... my "indictment" was in the context of dynamics. Normal 3s used to lead the segment for everything dynamics related; the notion that now you have to get an M-car for good dynamics is enough to write them off.

Yup.

I don't expect them to change, but it still sucks that entry level 3ers used to be very good driver's cars and that they are not anymore, according to most reports anyway (haven't driven one since E90).

I still don't think that's fair.  Think about what was in the same class as the 3er when it was the top of the heap, so around the E36/46.  It was mostly garbage.  The C class was a joke, the A4 or whatever it was called before was only taken seriously in the occasional S-guise, the Lexus ES just didn't care to be hustled, the Acura TL/CL-S were okay I guess, and I can't even remember what Infinit was pushing.  It was by default the only choice if you wanted anything resembling driving fun.  Now though?  Decent driving machines in this class are everywhere.  I don't think BMW has changed it philosophy on the 3er much honestly, its just everyone else has gotten so much better that it looks like they dropped the ball.

How's the steering feel on the most recent 3ers? IMO, that's mostly where their competitive advantage was. My dad's 2017 A4 handles just fine, but the steering feel is terrible for something that some people consider to be a sport sedan.

[12,000 RPM]

3er remained the top of the heap through the E9x generation, for good reason. It was as civil and refined as anything else in the class, while also being the fastest and most dynamically competent. The G, which was its closest competitor, was a mess dynamically even in sport trim. Dynamically the F30 was a mess, with a sloppy, vague chassis and steering (at least in the rental trim I had). Coincidentally, several competitors also stepped their game up dynamically. But it's not like the 3 stood its ground. It definitely took a step back with the F30. The F80 also had some issues until the Comp package came out.

Mags say the current one got its mojo back but after the disappointment of the Mazda 3 I'm gonna wait to drive one before I believe it.

[r0tor]

Mags say the current one got its mojo back but after the disappointment of the Mazda 3 I'm gonna wait to drive one before I believe it.

5 minutes in a Giulia is all that's needed to confirm the sports sedan still lives and is as good as ever

[12,000 RPM]

I mean, everything different between a Giulia and a manual E46/E90 goes against what enthusiasts want. Low revving turbo 4 vs a singing NA 6; 200-400lb extra weight; availability of 3 pedals vs not. The unthusiast market and regulations have forced things in this direction.

[r0tor]

.. and one of the most iconic bmws had a low revving turbo 4.

Not to mention the most desirable e90s being turbo

Or Audi doing the turbo 4 sports sedan thing forever

[12,000 RPM]

.. and one of the most iconic bmws had a low revving turbo 4.

Everything was low revving 40 years ago.......................................

Not to mention the most desirable e90s being turbo

I don't think they ever made a turbocharged E9x M3..................................

[r0tor]

You said "e90" -shrug-

[12,000 RPM]

Yes, the most desirable E90 was the M3.

[r0tor]

Didn't realize we suddenly started talking m cars in a non m car thread

[Eye of the Tiger]

E36 M3

[cawimmer430]

New 3er at BMW Welt, both in CO2-low emitting 320d form! 

[12,000 RPM]

I like it less

The grille, the gauges, the c pillar

No bueno

[giant_mtb]

Looks nice. I just don't like the way the grille is eating into the hood's real estate. 

[r0tor]

I hate the uni-grill and digital gauges

[Rich]

Looks nice. I just don't like the way the grille is eating into the hood's real estate. 

Looks like a dog's nose.

[Raza]

The black surround on the grille looks awful.


Besides, if I wanted an automatic BMW, I'd buy an X1, X3, or X5. Not something that's supposed to be good to drive.

[Xer0]

I'm liking the grill a lot more when its not chromed out, still, I think I'd prefer it not being outlined.

[cawimmer430]

The connected black grille looks better in person. I am not that bothered by it.

I have to say the rear lights do remind me of a Lexus IS. I saw a new BMW 3er from the rear on the road today (without camouflage but still a factory car) and I initially assumed it was a Lexus IS.

"Wow! A Lexus! Somebody actually bought one here...oh wait, it's the new 3er."

[Xer0]

New X3/X4 M just reveled and probably also confirms the engine that will go into the new M3/4

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a23070105/2020-bmw-x3-x4-m-photos-info/

3.0 TT i6 with either 470 or 503hp.  7300 RPM redline so this thing will probably feel pretty good too.

[cawimmer430]

Everytime someone posts a link to Car and Driver I weep. Can't view their website. Communist Europe... eh, GDPR... 

[12,000 RPM]

What a weird time for cars.

[cawimmer430]

What a weird time for cars.

Governments (especially in Europe) are borderline hysterical about CO2 and "man-made climate change" and want to punish anyone with an ICE car, and car companies are still building overpowered, thirsty gas-guzzling SUVs and performance cars because people want that stuff.

Weird time indeed.