EVs

[Laconian]

"when the only affordable EVs are things like the Leaf"

I think you need to refresh your browser window. There are a lot of "affordable" choices out there, if you consider the Camry and Accord's low $30k to be the definition of middle class "affordability".  Hell, you can get an optioned-up Model 3 for the price that many Americans pay for minivans and trucks!

Also: EVs are already fun. My brother's Bolt is a fucking ball. You saw the Model 3 track videos. It's the ICE cars in that range that are the milquetoast offerings now, with buzzkill MPG-friendly autotragics.

[BimmerM3]

"when the only affordable EVs are things like the Leaf"

I think you need to refresh your browser window. There are a lot of "affordable" choices out there, if you consider the Camry and Accord's low $30k to be the definition of middle class "affordability".  Hell, you can get an optioned-up Model 3 for the price that many Americans pay for minivans and trucks!

Also: EVs are already fun. My brother's Bolt is a fucking ball. You saw the Model 3 track videos. It's the ICE cars in that range that are the milquetoast offerings now, with buzzkill MPG-friendly autotragics.

Plus 99% of buyers care exactly zero about driving excitement, and would be more excited about their new fancy technology than something fun to drive.

[12,000 RPM]

It's not so much about driving excitement as it is stuff buyers care about- design, content, luxury. A $30K Camcord is a much, much, much, much, much nicer car than a $30K EV. Spec wise, the Bolt is great... but it looks like a subcompact half its asking price. When they can make a $30K EV that feels like a $30K ICE (or hell even a $25K ICE) I think we will begin approaching EV critical mass.

[BimmerM3]

It's not so much about driving excitement as it is stuff buyers care about- design, content, luxury. A $30K Camcord is a much, much, much, much, much nicer car than a $30K EV. Spec wise, the Bolt is great... but it looks like a subcompact half its asking price. When they can make a $30K EV that feels like a $30K ICE (or hell even a $25K ICE) I think we will begin approaching EV critical mass.

The Clarity EV has a relatively limited range (89 miles) and is only available for lease in limited areas at the moment, but otherwise seems like what you're looking for.

Not to mention that, in October, the Model 3 was the 6th best selling passenger car (excludes SUVs/CUVs/trucks/vans) and 18th best selling vehicle overall in the US, though I dunno if they can sustain that level of demand long term.

In other words, we're getting close.

[12,000 RPM]

89 miles of rated range wouldn't work for my 80 mile/day commute... and the Clarity is hideous and slow

Best way to prob sum up what I want.... an Insight with 200 miles of range and 0-60 in the 6s. Rebadge it an Acura to justify it costing $40K or so (and while I'm making requests, please give it a panoramic moonroof). At current battery prices that's a stretch, but I agree that such vehicles are not far away.

My main issue is a lot of companies I don't fully trust (Tesla, GM, VWAG, Hyundai/Kia) are the ones leading the charge. Once Honda/Toyota get in the EV mix then it will be real to me.

[Laconian]

Don't you want to take a Model S motor and swap it in a Chevy Spark?

[BimmerM3]

89 miles of rated range wouldn't work for my 80 mile/day commute... and the Clarity is hideous and slow

Best way to prob sum up what I want.... an Insight with 200 miles of range and 0-60 in the 6s. Rebadge it an Acura to justify it costing $40K or so (and while I'm making requests, please give it a panoramic moonroof). At current battery prices that's a stretch, but I agree that such vehicles are not far away.

My main issue is a lot of companies I don't fully trust (Tesla, GM, VWAG, Hyundai/Kia) are the ones leading the charge. Once Honda/Toyota get in the EV mix then it will be real to me.

Yeah, I guess part of it for me is that I don't really care about a lot of the luxury stuff. I drive a 10 year old car and a 12 year old car, so even most basic compacts are more luxurious (at least by technology standards) than what I'm used to, I prefer cloth seats, and fancy-touch materials on dashes and whatnot are nice, but not worth the price, IMO.

I will concede that adaptive cruise control would be really nice to have, but I don't consider it to be a deal breaker, and even that can be found on a lot of cheaper cars these days.

[12,000 RPM]

I was the same way until I got my G. Auto climate control, sunroof, heated seats, Android Auto are minimums for me. Unfortunately that seems to require every other option in the mainstream

[BimmerM3]

I was the same way until I got my G. Auto climate control, sunroof, heated seats, Android Auto are minimums for me. Unfortunately that seems to require every other option in the mainstream

Heated seats are an almost-must for me, but they seem pretty available on most cars that I've looked it. Not in base trim for all models, but you can usually add them as an independent option or as part of a not-too-expensive package.

I do like the auto climate control in my Explorer, especially on cold days so that I don't have to guess when the engine is warm enough to use the heater, but not a deal breaker.

[CaminoRacer]

Yeah, you can get Cruzes with heated seats.

[Laconian]

Yeah, you can get Cruzes with heated seats.

Kias are generous with them; cooled too.

[2o6]

My Sonic has heated seats.

[Morris Minor]

Kias are generous with them; cooled too.

Cooled seats are are awesome.

[Morris Minor]

My 87-year-old  mother got a ride in an EV last week. She said it was a BMW but my description of an i3 did not match. She was positive it was a saloon car and that it was not a hybrid, pure EV.
Maybe a Model S? I don't know what's available in the UK.
Anyway, point is, she was entranced, bubbling over about it, bowled over by the silence and the wizardry. This from someone who has absolutely zero interest in cars.

This is how sales are made... the serious wow factor for car non-enthusiasts. 

[Laconian]

There is an electric 7-series. It's incredibly posh, especially in the backseat.

[Morris Minor]

Quite compelling. Coming to the USA in 2019 (hopefully equipped with the three-stage bum coolers and arse warmers)
https://youtu.be/LATZ0g-Sz2s

[r0tor]

Engineering Explained has a fairly on point EV long term test on YouTube today

[BimmerM3]

Engineering Explained has a fairly on point EV long term test on YouTube today

Link for the Lazy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo4byxhI6kY

[GoCougs]

Engineering Explained is a pretty good channel. But he even admits that a household still needs an ICE-powered car.

We'll see after the coming downturn - most can't afford to buy EVs and all automakers lose money selling EVs - and it's bound to only get worse...

[93JC]

Link for the Lazy

<Engineering Explained vid>

That guy's accent is extremely distracting. Where the hell do people pronounce 'car' as 'core'?

[Laconian]

Or "sorry" as "soarey"?

[93JC]

[Morris Minor]

Or "sorry" as "soarey"?

I prefer the laid back style of the Fully Charged guys: cutaway shots, cool music tracks, nifty editing. But they're experienced TV guys and know about production values.
I still think the Kona Electric is something I'd look at, and don't dispute that many would need an ICE car for backup, particularly the the USA, with its long distances and battery-draining harsh climate.

[NomisR]

After going on a month and a half with my Bolt, I can say other than the meh seats, it's been great.  Instant acceleration makes it easy to get into the freeways, pass, and even make quick turns.  The car's small and nimble enough to take corners at high speeds with no drama, and it has plenty of space to boot.  I dropped my parents off at the airport last night with 3 full sized luggage in the trunk, plus a carry on sized, fits 3 passengers, and I didn't even have to take the car seat out. 

There's really no range anxiety what-so-ever on this car.  The most I've driven was about 150 miles in a day though.  You don't have to worry about charging often like you do with a gas vehicle because you simply charge at home or at work and it keeps you topped off.  As for battery life, I think I posted it a couple of years ago regarding Tesla battery, but a conservative estimate for the battery life would probably be about 180k miles, if not more since most EVs don't use their full capacity so they're not going through full cycles every time it's recharged.  I'm talking about GM and Tesla EVs, the Nissan ones were running into issues because they were using full capacity so the batteries are actually cycling out quicker. 

[AutobahnSHO]

I would get one but so expensive!

[Laconian]

After going on a month and a half with my Bolt, I can say other than the meh seats, it's been great.  Instant acceleration makes it easy to get into the freeways, pass, and even make quick turns.  The car's small and nimble enough to take corners at high speeds with no drama, and it has plenty of space to boot.  I dropped my parents off at the airport last night with 3 full sized luggage in the trunk, plus a carry on sized, fits 3 passengers, and I didn't even have to take the car seat out. 

There's really no range anxiety what-so-ever on this car.  The most I've driven was about 150 miles in a day though.  You don't have to worry about charging often like you do with a gas vehicle because you simply charge at home or at work and it keeps you topped off.  As for battery life, I think I posted it a couple of years ago regarding Tesla battery, but a conservative estimate for the battery life would probably be about 180k miles, if not more since most EVs don't use their full capacity so they're not going through full cycles every time it's recharged.  I'm talking about GM and Tesla EVs, the Nissan ones were running into issues because they were using full capacity so the batteries are actually cycling out quicker. 

Yeah my brother really loves his Bolt. They do a lot of in-state road trips on it. The batteries need energy at about the same interval that the kids do, so the pit stops overlap pretty well.

[12,000 RPM]

I just can't get past the looks. But your experience pretty much confirms what I thought. If they make one that looks as good as my Kia in the ~$35-40K range... in 2020-2021 I will be game

[NomisR]

Yeah, the Bolt is pretty much a hot hatch, with proper tires, you can get the 0-60 into the high 5s which is much better than other EVs other than the Teslas.  But you're right, it basically looks like a mini-ute.  You can maybe add some items, wing, diffuser, splitter, canards, aggressive wheels, fender flares, it might look better.

[giant_mtb]

GM would have a real winner on their hands if they hadn't made it look so odd and frumpy.  I don't understand/like this idea that "we must make EVs look odd and futuristic!"  No, make it a good-looking car that looks normal and people will eat that shit up.

[Soup DeVille]

GM would have a real winner on their hands if they hadn't made it look so odd and frumpy.  I don't understand/like this idea that "we must make EVs look odd and futuristic!"  No, make it a good-looking car that looks normal and people will eat that shit up.

Well, that method was tried with the first hybrids; and it fell flat. The Prius was the first real success in that segment and it was intentionally "spacy."