EVs

[Morris Minor]

Joe Biden at GM, singing the praises of Mary Barra.

"You changed the whole story, Mary. You did, Mary. You electrified the entire automotive industry. I'm serious. You led, and it matters," Biden said."
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-ignored-biden-gm-ceo-ev-leader-video/

[CaminoRacer]

Joe Biden at GM, singing the praises of Mary Barra.

"You changed the whole story, Mary. You did, Mary. You electrified the entire automotive industry. I'm serious. You led, and it matters," Biden said."
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-ignored-biden-gm-ceo-ev-leader-video/

Good. Elon should constantly be trolled.

[Morris Minor]

Good. Elon should constantly be trolled.

Haha - he's being shunned. He's dead to to us - no redemption. Such is the fate of those who turn away from the true faith of UAW.

[GoCougs]

Haha. Could be a 4th dimensional troll, but I doubt it.

Either way, the Bolt could very well be the precursor to GM's coming (non)success with EVs, very possibly cemented by that ridiculous Hummer. Ford might be better off with the F150 Lightning. The Japanese and Koreans probably have it right - nameless/faceless EV econo box CUVs.

But I agree with the implication - the UAW could very well bring Detroit to its knees again, maybe even kill it, because of EVs.

[FoMoJo]

Well, GM did have the EV1, but that was before Mary.

[AutobahnSHO]

Is Mexico under UAW control?

Ford's cheapest vehicle (a hybrid with optional turbo non-hybrid) is now built there....

[cawimmer430]

This "Let's do it the ICE Way" mindset is why I think several of the legacy manufacturers will go bankrupt. Pivoting is culturally extremely difficult. Also meeting the insane expense of pivoting is not easy when your revenue source is sales & service of ICE vehicles, which are gradually being outlawed.

Here's an example of what I mean.
https://www.electrive.com/2021/11/04/works-council-conflict-at-vw-continues-to-escalate/

I agree with you 110%.

But as you know, the "great transformation" (The Great Reset / Klaus Schwab / World Economic Forum) is taking place in the vision of these hardcore communist/socialist assholes, YOU in the future "won't own anything but still be happy". So basically people won't even own EVs if these dipshits have their way.

Also look up Klaus Schwab's ideas for future cities: SMART CITIES. It sounds nice, but it's actually scary to people like us who value our freedom [of individual mobility].

[GoCougs]

Well, GM did have the EV1, but that was before Mary.

They did, and it was groundbreaking, but it was basically a beta test program and not an actual product to sell. As I think most know, that beta testing showed that though the EV1 had a rabid cult following, overall EVs were too expensive and too niche to be a viable business for GM.

[afty]

They did, and it was groundbreaking, but it was basically a beta test program and not an actual product to sell. As I think most know, that beta testing showed that though the EV1 had a rabid cult following, overall EVs were too expensive and too niche to be a viable business for GM.

Alternatively, GM could have capitalized on the EV1's rabid following much like Tesla did to build a market for EVs. But that's risky and they had safer sources of revenue. It's classic big company, innovator's dilemma stuff.

[CaminoRacer]

EV1 was too early. The battery tech just wasn't there yet

[Morris Minor]

EV1 was too early. The battery tech just wasn't there yet

It was an influential car though - got people thinking, even if only on bringing to light a few cold realities about the technology & corporate cynicism.
At least GM did not have an openly hostile White House to deal with.

[MrH]

Ah yes. It's the White House that's hostile. Not the man telling the SEC to suck his cock.

[SJ_GTI]

I feel for MrH here. Asking him to choose sides in a Musk/Biden fight is like trying to pick a side between Hitler/Stalin.

[Morris Minor]

Biden even drew the ire of Robert Llewellyn, who's a super-crunchy climate activist.
The lesson here is that money, and staying elected... are infinitely more important to politicians than anything they spout about the climate. This is now dawning on starry-eyed young sustainability advocates.

Yeah you can have your fuckin' EVs but you better make sure it's a fuckin' union shop.


Or we'll break your fuckin' knees.

[afty]

I'm a card-carrying Democrat, but this extra EV credit for union-made cars is some BS.  It's such an obvious kickback to a special interest that I don't understand why more people aren't up in arms about it.

[GoCougs]

I'm a card-carrying Democrat, but this extra EV credit for union-made cars is some BS.  It's such an obvious kickback to a special interest that I don't understand why more people aren't up in arms about it.

In the grand scheme of what levers the government pulls in favor of special interests, this is very small potatoes. IMO it also shows that there is not much interest in EVs that aren't Tesla.

[Laconian]

I'm a card-carrying Democrat, but this extra EV credit for union-made cars is some BS.  It's such an obvious kickback to a special interest that I don't understand why more people aren't up in arms about it.

[Morris Minor]

Saw an interesting discussion today about the transition to EVs. An analyst made the point that auto manufacturing is seen in many countries as core, part of national identities even. Because of this they are often not allowed to fail - the markets do not decide who lives & who dies.
e.g. France would never allow Peugeot or Renault to die. Germany would keep Mercedes & VW alive etc. The US has Ford & GM.

Of all the big guys - who IMO are ill-equipped in basic ways to pivot successfully, I see the least love for BMW. Of all three large players in Germany, I think, if it went tits-up, the German government would be least likely to reanimate the corpse.

[cawimmer430]

Saw an interesting discussion today about the transition to EVs. An analyst made the point that auto manufacturing is seen in many countries as core, part of national identities even. Because of this they are often not allowed to fail - the markets do not decide who lives & who dies.
e.g. France would never allow Peugeot or Renault to die. Germany would keep Mercedes & VW alive etc. The US has Ford & GM.

Of all the big guys - who IMO are ill-equipped in basic ways to pivot successfully, I see the least love for BMW. Of all three large players in Germany, I think, if it went tits-up, the German government would be least likely to reanimate the corpse.

From my POV the German government is doing everything they can to damage and harm our car industry, along with the EU.

BMW is skeptical about EVs and stated they will continue to produce internal combustion engines (good move). BMW will produce ICE in the UK. Daimler is virtue signaling about EVs but is secretly building factories in China where they will also produce ICE. Basically these companies are being forced to produce abroad due to the retarded EU and their CO2 hysteria.

Volkswagen is the biggest hypocrite with their EV virtue signaling. Nevermind the fact that 100% of Volkswagen products sold in South America and Africa and most of their products in Asia are still ICE-powered and will be for decades to come.

Shell, the Dutch oil company, just left the EU and relocated their business address to the UK. Probably both for tax reasons and because of the insane demands from the EU that Shell lower their CO2 emissions by a completely unrealistic number by 2025.


My opinion is that the transition away from ICE to EV (or something else) will happen naturally once the product is good. What do I mean with good? Fast charging, stable ranges, long battery life and affordability. Right now EVs are being forced on us and the market and the product itself are not ready for the masses.

[FoMoJo]

Self driving test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAfmclVmYQo

[Morris Minor]

"Tesla did not respond to CNN Business for comment."

You have to be mental-age CNN to not know that Tesla doesn't have a PR department. Haha.

[SJ_GTI]

"Tesla did not respond to CNN Business for comment."

You have to be mental-age CNN to not know that Tesla doesn't have a PR department. Haha.

I didn't watch the video, but I think that is a standard journalistic practice...always give the person/company being reported on a chance to respond (even if they don't have a PR department). Call me crazy but I think this is a pretty good standard.

[Morris Minor]

I didn't watch the video, but I think that is a standard journalistic practice...always give the person/company being reported on a chance to respond (even if they don't have a PR department). Call me crazy but I think this is a pretty good standard.

Yeah you're right.
The video was a compilation of the beta's learner-driver screwups & disengagements, and the reporter's freakouts. It would interesting to know which release he was driving and what his personal safety score was. I'd thought you had to be 99 or above to be considered.

[Morris Minor]

More info. The reporter I think was doing a good job, balanced & acting in good faith. The editors did their job too, which was to ensure that a hit piece went to air.

https://youtu.be/lf4qc7LAkuo

[RomanChariot]

I didn't watch the video, but I think that is a standard journalistic practice...always give the person/company being reported on a chance to respond (even if they don't have a PR department). Call me crazy but I think this is a pretty good standard.

I agree that it is a good standard but it seems for most news  stories these days the reporter's standard line is "we reached out to XXX but we didn't get am immediate response." Breaking the story is more important that waiting for a response. If they get a response they do a follow-up if it is a major story. If it is a minor story they will sometimes append the original story.

[FoMoJo]

Personally, I don't think I'd ever let go of the steering wheel.

[SJ_GTI]

The editors did their job too, which was to ensure that a hit piece went to air.

(its funny cause its true)

[GoCougs]

Personally, I don't think I'd ever let go of the steering wheel.

I'm not convinced the average driver has much interest in self driving, even if it worked; or, IOW, those interested in self driving are actually not interested in owning/driving a car.

I don't think it's ever going to work in its current form. As 10+ years has shown, there's simply too much variation to make it reliable (in my lifetime).

The closest we'll get is Waymo's approach - an incredibly expensive, polluting, and time consuming process (i.e., mapping) that will never scale. And then it's not "autonomous" but rote in the most extreme form.

[Morris Minor]

I'm not convinced the average driver has much interest in self driving, even if it worked; or, IOW, those interested in self driving are actually not interested in owning/driving a car.

I don't think it's ever going to work in its current form. As 10+ years has shown, there's simply too much variation to make it reliable (in my lifetime).

The closest we'll get is Waymo's approach - an incredibly expensive, polluting, and time consuming process (i.e., mapping) that will never scale. And then it's not "autonomous" but rote in the most extreme form.

Tesla has eschewed mapping as far as I can see. The idea is that you should be able to drop a Tesla into somewhere it's never been before and it will be able to drive. It's an on-board inference setup - like us; we're trained up enough to not need to have been to a particular four-way stop before to infer that were are at a four-way stop and do what's needed. That's the theory anyway. haha.

The beta is still 100% student driver & white-knuckles.

[Laconian]

Humans aren't just reacting based on immediate perception data; we anticipate, using mental models built from prior experience... and tools like maps.