EVs

[CaminoRacer]

Not just in the air either. The soil and water of the communities near the copper mines have been negatively affected too (though the communities did choose to build there despite the risks).

SLC is one of the weirdest cities IMO. I don't know of another city where prime real estate just outside of downtown is taken up by refineries. There are plenty of places with refineries nearby, but they usually don't separate the suburbs from the city. All commuters from the north have to drive an extra 5 minutes.

[Speed_Racer]

Refineries to the north, mines to the west, gravel pits to the south. I don't think they had any sort of urban planning going on when they started building at the outskirts of the valley.

[shp4man]

Joseph Smith or Brigham Young saw the area and said "This is the place!".

[Laconian]

And lo, this here shall be the land of the Center of the City Creek, where honest, hard working Mormons can purchase goods quality and sundry, and beseecheth the advice of the Latter Day Prophets from the Apple Genius Bar.

[FoMoJo]

Joseph Smith or Brigham Young saw the area and said "This is the place!".

Is that where they found those gold tablets?

[shp4man]

Is that where they found those gold tablets?

It came to pass that they were found in New York. I think.

[CaminoRacer]

And lo, this here shall be the land of the Center of the City Creek, where honest, hard working Mormons can purchase goods quality and sundry, and beseecheth the advice of the Latter Day Prophets from the Apple Genius Bar.

That Apple store brings in about $34 million a year.

[RomanChariot]

It came to pass that they were found in New York. I think.

You are correct.

[Speed_Racer]

Joseph Smith or Brigham Young saw the area and said "This is the place!".

"Meh, good enough." - Brigham Young

[AutobahnSHO]

I would build my own wind turbines if I had the money.

We were driving and saw some trucks carrying windmill parts the other direction. Just the blades are like a football field long it seems. Really really insane!

[AutobahnSHO]

Joseph Smith or Brigham Young saw the area and said "This is the place!".

Brigham. Joseph Smith was shot in a jail in Illinois.

[AutobahnSHO]

"Meh, good enough." - Brigham Young

I'm sure everyone was upset with that, it looks(ed) like a desert.

[Eye of the Tiger]

We were driving and saw some trucks carrying windmill parts the other direction. Just the blades are like a football field long it seems. Really really insane!

Yeah, they barely fit on roads. I don't need one that big.

[CaminoRacer]

Yeah, they barely fit on roads. I don't need one that big.

Yes you do.

[12,000 RPM]

That Apple store brings in about $34 million a year.

For a company that makes $256B in annual revenue this seems small

Though I guess a lot of their sales are in services and online.

[SJ_GTI]

For a company that makes $256B in annual revenue this seems small

Though I guess a lot of their sales are in services and online.

I presumed he was talking about that one, specific store location.

[BimmerM3]

For a company that makes $256B in annual revenue this seems small

$34M averages out to like $93,000 every day.

[cawimmer430]

Tesla Expecting Shortage In Minerals For Electric Vehicle Batteries

Tesla says it expects to encounter global shortages of the key minerals needed for manufacturing electric vehicle batteries.

Speaking during a recent industry conference on Thursday, Tesla's global supply manager for battery metals, Sarah Maryssael, told miners, regulators, and lawmakers that the car manufacturer expects a shortage of key EV minerals. Maryssael said that her comments were referring to long-term supply challenges and were industry-specific.

Among the key minerals used in the batteries of electric vehicles are copper, nickel, lithium, and others. Maryssael didn't specify which materials the car manufacturer is expecting to see shortages of.

Reuters reports that the copper industry has long suffered from years of under-investment and is currently working to develop new mines to boost copper supplies. The world's largest publicly traded copper producer, Freeport-McMoRan, for example, is expanding its operations in the United States and Indonesia.

The increased popularity of smart home systems like Alphabet's Nest and Amazon's Alexa personal assistant are expected to consume about 1.5 million tonnes of copper by 2030, a huge increase from the 38,000 tonnes they currently use. This, in turn, will limit the supply of copper that can be used for electric vehicle batteries.

According to Maryssael, Tesla intends on focusing more on nickel in the construction of its future batteries and also wants to use less cobalt in battery cathodes. Most cobalt comes from the Democratic Republic of the Congo and the processes often used to extract it, some of which use child labor, are of great concern to the industry.

Tesla's global supply manager for battery metals went on to state that the company sees "huge potential" to partner with mines in Australia or the United States.



Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2019/05/tesla-expecting-shortage-in-minerals-for-electric-vehicle-batteries/

[giant_mtb]

Gross.  Millions of tons of copper being used (and eventually thrown into landfill) so that people can say "Hey Alexa, what's the weather?  I'm too lazy to look outside."

[12,000 RPM]

I presumed he was talking about that one, specific store location.

Yea I was too. They have 506 stores globally. If that's the average per store revenue then like 95% of their business isn't done in their stores. I guess it makes sense; I was just surprised. Thought the stores were more integral to their retail process

[12,000 RPM]

I still question the availability of car battery minerals.

Day by day I still feel like EVs are a waste of batteries. If it were up to me we'd cross bigger thresholds in renewable power before moving over to BEVs so aggressively.

[FoMoJo]

I still question the availability of car battery minerals.

Day by day I still feel like EVs are a waste of batteries. If it were up to me we'd cross bigger thresholds in renewable power before moving over to BEVs so aggressively.

It goes hand in hand.  New batteries will not be created unless there is an immediate need.  No new EVs, no new batteries.  Over a hundred years of battery development was neglected because of the perceived lack of need.

[12,000 RPM]

Batteries have been developed over the last 150 years... but that doesn't change the fact that we may not have enough lithium/cobalt/whatever to get EVs beyond some critical mass.

We can't even recycle or recondition batteries for reuse in transportation applications yet.

[BimmerM3]

We can't even recycle or recondition batteries for reuse in transportation applications yet.

We apparently can, though doing it cost effectively and efficiently is a pretty recent development.

https://techxplore.com/news/2019-05-startup-aims-lithium-ion-battery-chain.html

[FoMoJo]

Batteries have been developed over the last 150 years... but that doesn't change the fact that we may not have enough lithium/cobalt/whatever to get EVs beyond some critical mass.

We can't even recycle or recondition batteries for reuse in transportation applications yet.

They have been developed, but not with urgency.  It seemed only when miniature electronic devices were possible that battery development accelerated.  Even over the past couple of decades has battery research and development increased with the need, not only for EVs, but for mass storage of energy as well. 

[MrH]

They have been developed, but not with urgency.  It seemed only when miniature electronic devices were possible that battery development accelerated.  Even over the past couple of decades has battery research and development increased with the need, not only for EVs, but for mass storage of energy as well. 

Well...yeah.  Why would they work to develop something if there wasn't a need?

[BimmerM3]

Well...yeah.  Why would they work to develop something if there wasn't a need?

I believe he's agreeing with you by saying that EVs are necessary to increase demand for battery research.

[FoMoJo]

Well...yeah.  Why would they work to develop something if there wasn't a need?

Exactly.  Now that burning fossil fuels has been seen as such a detriment to the health of the planet/health of humanity, the rush is on to develop a better means to generate and store energy.

Once more we agree.

[GoCougs]

Using fossil fuels has always had an environmental toll; no one argues that. It's just that fossil fuels are overall the best environmental bet, and will be for the foreseeable future, because as we've seen ITT and elsewhere, EVs ain't it (and neither are renewables save for maybe hydro).

[FoMoJo]

Using fossil fuels has always had an environmental toll; no one argues that. It's just that fossil fuels are overall the best environmental bet, and will be for the foreseeable future, because as we've seen ITT and elsewhere, EVs ain't it (and neither are renewables save for maybe hydro).

It certainly won't happen overnight and much of how energy is generated, to this point, has been rather primitive.  Our ancestors in caves were able to control fire for their purpose utilizing some sources available and a means to ignite.  We haven't really progressed that much in the source and utilization of energy.  Certainly, generating, storing and utilizing electricity is a step forward.  We even have the formula and some practical means of utilizing energy at its elemental level; but not a lot of real expertise.  Certainly, the optimal energy solution is not yet at hand and all of what we presently do is intermediate stages.  There are possibly, and more likely, sources of energy and means of utilizing it that have yet to be discovered.  Think ahead man.