EVs

[Morris Minor]

How the EPA determines EV range. I thought CNBC did a decent job with this:

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2023/07/22/how-the-epa-determines-electric-vehicle-range.html

[Laconian]

Very interesting video. That EPA lab looks like it could be fun to work at. I'm quite surprised, it doesn't look like there is anything inducing or simulating aerodynamic resistance in their labs?

It seems like it would be hard to get combined test weighting which would make everybody happy. YMMV is twice as bad in the EV world as it is for ICE vehicles.

[Laconian]

EVs can be repaired more cheaply than the OEMs will let on, but even still, the repairs are about the same cost as getting a whole new ICE engine?!

His estimates for the Model S motor longevity are pretty depressing too.

Sheesh. Maybe I should've leased the EV6, what kind of depreciation awaits me...?

[AutobahnSHO]

Lol. Can only tow a camper 100 miles...

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[Laconian]

Hah!!! Big regrets!

[GoCougs]

That can't be a legit post.

[Laconian]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38911919/rivian-r1t-towing-tested/
"Switching to Tow mode comes with some ominous foreshadowing, as the R1T's indicated range disappears, instantly going from 270 miles to 103"

Working As Intended

[MrH]

Why would you ever buy an EV truck if you're towing a 9,000 lb, 35 foot trailer 100 miles?

And why wouldn't you charge fully before going???

How are people with this much money this dumb?

[AutobahnSHO]

That can't be a legit post.

 It is a 9000lb trailer, with a vehicle that's not super big. I'm pretty impressed with the (short range ) capability!

[AutobahnSHO]

Why would you ever buy an EV truck if you're towing a 9,000 lb, 35 foot trailer 100 miles?

And why wouldn't you charge fully before going???

How are people with this much money this dumb?

Welcome to the future.

"The manual says it can tow xxxx"

You wouldn't believe the crazy photos people were posting on the Maverick forum of all the stuff they were hauling around on highways (without ANY kind of securing the load). People quickly jump on them for being unsafe and that's tapered off- but when you get a bunch of n00bs........

[RomanChariot]

Why would you ever buy an EV truck if you're towing a 9,000 lb, 35 foot trailer 100 miles?

And why wouldn't you charge fully before going???

How are people with this much money this dumb?

I tow a similar size trailer with an F-250 V10 and I get frustrated that I can only go a little over 200 miles (stupid 29 gallon tank). Being limited to only 100 miles would be a complete deal breaker for me towing in the sparsely populated parts of southern Utah that I often travel to.

[veeman]

EVs can be repaired more cheaply than the OEMs will let on, but even still, the repairs are about the same cost as getting a whole new ICE engine?!

His estimates for the Model S motor longevity are pretty depressing too.

Sheesh. Maybe I should've leased the EV6, what kind of depreciation awaits me...?

We're probably going to put near 30 thousand miles on our Kia EV6 in the first year (we're currently at 12 thousand miles in 5 months). I've financed the car for 5 years.  If I can go without any battery issues for 5 years/150,000 miles I'll be very happy. After that, if something goes wrong with the battery, I'd be fine trading in the car for peanuts.  I'd rather get more than peanuts, but I wouldn't be upset about it.

I've decided to never take the car (as far as I can help it) to a public fast charger. I think that'll help with battery longevity. Anywhere beyond 100 miles from home one way, we've been taking the ICE car.   

[r0tor]

I saw a Rivian towing an Airstream trailer last summer on an interstate.  It was going way under the normal speed of traffic flow and was bouncing uncontrollably.

[AutobahnSHO]

I saw a Rivian towing an Airstream trailer last summer on an interstate.  It was going way under the normal speed of traffic flow and was bouncing uncontrollably.

 

[AutobahnSHO]

LOL watching random fail videos- the EV being charged outside suffered a frozen plug, couldn't remove it....

[Morris Minor]

My favorite grumpy EV-advocate Brit helped make this animation a couple of years ago. I'd never seen it until today.

[AutobahnSHO]

My favorite grumpy EV-advocate Brit helped make this animation a couple of years ago. I'd never seen it until today.

Yeah his numbers are off. At about 6min he says almost half US electricity comes from "clean" energy, and he says "it's clean, period".

However numbers from 2022 don't agree: https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

Looong discussion about the offset of production of gasoline, but nothing about carbon debt of producing windmills, solar panels, etc...

[veeman]

Got the CrossClimate 2's on the EV6.

Temps are low and I sat in a parking lot running the heater for about 20 minutes so I don't have an exact basis of comparison, but my initial thinking it's getting around 2.8mi/kWh where normally I'd expect 3.0?

I'll send an update after I've done a few weeks of driving and the tires have been broken in.

It drives great on the interstate! I'd say that noise levels are about the same but the helm feels creamier, with more progressive turn-in and better on-center feel.

We had a few inches of snow last week and the stock Kia EV6 tires (19 in Kumho Crugen HP71) really sucked.  I like these OEM tires in the dry and wet just fine and they only have < 20 thousand miles on them. But in the snow these all seasons were terrible. No confidence in braking. The next day the roads were clear and the stock tires were fine again. 

I'm not going to replace for now. I have the Infiniti QX60 with all weather Vredestein tires for the likely few times, if at all, it'll snow again where I live.

When it comes time to replace the tires, I might go with an all weather Vredestein tire (they're a bit cheaper than the Michelin all weather crossclimate2). None of the all weather tires (tires which are all seasons but also have the 3 peak mountain snowflake symbol) are specifically designed for EV cars however.  I'll have to scour the Kia EV6 forums though to see how much expected range decreases. Range is very important to me given my wife's long commute. In the warmer months I was charging routinely to 80% battery capacity but the last few colder months I've upped it to 90% battery capacity. My wife usually returns from her 130 mile daily commute with 30-35% charge left after charging to 90% battery capacity in the winter thus far. The heating doesn't work nearly as well as an ICE car but the heated seats (3 levels - kinda warm/hot/burning) are awesome and the heated steering wheel I find is actually too hot.   

[r0tor]

You need to pay extra attention to load ratings if you are putting a non-EV marked tire on an EV

[Laconian]

Yeah... I don't think there are EV-friendly snow tires because the two are a contradiction.. EV tires are optimized for efficiency, whereas snow tires are formulated and shaped for more grip = friction = energy loss. The drop with the CC2's hasn't been terrible for us though. This time of year we got around 3mi/kWh, but with the CC's we might be getting 2.8-3.0 now.

We do about 7k miles per year so we don't really pay attention to the tire price - they last a long time. You do go through tires pretty quickly on the other hand...!

You need to pay extra attention to load ratings if you are putting a non-EV marked tire on an EV

True, but with CC2's at least the only option for the 21" wheel size was high load.

[veeman]

You need to pay extra attention to load ratings if you are putting a non-EV marked tire on an EV

Both the Vredestein Quatrac Pro and Michelin Crossclimate2 all weather tires (19 in) are load range: XL so they should be fine. Plus the Kia EV6 is heavy (curb weight 4,300 to 4,400 lbs) but is actually about 100 to 200 lbs lighter than my Infiniti QX60.  I don't have the GT model either and my wife doesn't drive fast so I'm not that concerned about the tires not being strong enough for the car. I'm just hesitant because of decreased range. Even a 10 to 20 mile decrease in range on a 90% charge in the winter would probably make me stick with the stock tires when it comes time to replace. Right now my wife never has to worry about range when going back and forth to work and sometimes has to drive further from home during work because of off-site meetings.

[Laconian]

How much remaining range does she have when she gets home?

[veeman]

How much remaining range does she have when she gets home?

After 130 mile commute during the winter months, she typically has 30 to 35% charge left when starting off at 90% charge. If she had to go to an offsite further south meeting during the day, then 25%. I'm forgetting how many miles that usually translates to. Probably between 50 and 80 real world miles range left.

[Laconian]

Power user. Yeah I can understand wanting to not ding the range.

[CaminoRacer]

I've heard Bolts get slightly better mileage with good dedicated winters than CC2s.

[AutobahnSHO]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hertz-sell-20-000-evs-123933213.html

Hertz is looking to sell 20k EVs. But I wonder how many other cars they sell after 2 years as rentals? Probably a lot, story is probably a nothing burger...

[Laconian]

$14k for a Model 3 is CHEAP though! Especially compared to just a couple years ago.

https://electrek.co/2024/01/10/tesla-model-3-hertz-cheap-used-rental/

[veeman]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hertz-sell-20-000-evs-123933213.html

Hertz is looking to sell 20k EVs. But I wonder how many other cars they sell after 2 years as rentals? Probably a lot, story is probably a nothing burger...

I think they're getting rid of them because Hertz is losing money on them. 

Tesla cutting prices on their new cars caused used Teslas to drop in value, they're more expensive to repair, they get into more accidents than other rentals by noob EV drivers, and getting parts and repairs takes longer.

If Hertz thought them a good value they would replace with new EVs but they're replacing with ICE cars.   

[Laconian]

Speaking from authority, as someone who got a surprise Model S upgrade on a business trip: putting a scorching fast EV in the hands of a random person is a recipe for reckless driving.

So you have all those problems PLUS the siren song of 0-60 in negative 1 second.

[Morris Minor]

Tesla should offer a rental fleet firmware option: TeslaOS 2024.01.25.9.restrictor.plate 

All the EV goodness plus steady & sensible Camry LE performance.