EVs

[AutobahnSHO]

We have a 3 month course here where students sometimes get (gov paid) rentals the whole time. Some of them get EVs, because- why not?  So it's interesting to see the Teslas or whatevers.

[r0tor]

Lol... My coworker has an actual commute of about 30 miles each way to work.  With the single digit weather his Model Y used 150 miles of range between the commute and sitting in the parking lot!!!

[565]

I was offered a Tesla as a free upgrade from Hertz when I went on a west coast vacation,they even had free supercharging.

I turned them down, even though I had the Model Y at home.  EVs just don't make sense on vacation yet. You are in an unfamiliar place, you might not have a charger in the hotel or you don't find a charging spot, and time is critical as you want to make the most of your vacation.

EVs shine in the daily longer routine commute, with reliable at home or at work charging. Their achilles heel is on long road trips and unexpected long drives. A rental car is probably the worst scenerio for them.

[afty]

A friend visited recently and had a Bolt for a rental.  Charging it was a huge pain in the ass.  Not only did he have to deal with broken chargers everywhere, but for non-Teslas you have to sign up for the charging network, and he had to do this for multiple networks.  There was one time when he signed up, deposited some funds, and then found that the charger he wanted to use was broken.

[giant_mtb]

[Morris Minor]

Why did the owners, knowing that the site wasn't working, show up anyway?
Why are two vehicles parked about three inches apart?
What's the equation with racking up idle fees?
Why didn't the infobabe do some more digging?
Is she a product of Chicago Public Schools?

Kyle Connor flew to Chicago to find out what was actually going on. Amazing what you can do when you're more inquisitive than a brain-dead hamster. It was several factors coming together in a bad way.

[Laconian]

Kyle Connor flew to Chicago to find out what was actually going on. Amazing what you can do when you're more inquisitive than a brain-dead hamster. It was several factors coming together in a bad way.

There's no money left in the business to be inquisitive. Churnalism is all we have the budget for.

[AutobahnSHO]

There's no money left in the business to be inquisitive. Churnalism is all we have the budget for.

[MrH]

I just want to say:

The Lightning is incredible in the snow.  Even on just all-seasons.  All things that play into it:

7,000 lbs
AWD with two separate motors and no diff to shuffle power between front and rear
Instant torque with great throttle response
Low CG + 50/50 weight distribution

I thought my old 4Runner in 4Hi on brand new BFG KO2s was good, but this is probably even better.

[CaminoRacer]

It has 50/50 weight distribution? That's awesome.

[SJ_GTI]

I would guess most EV's are going to be close to 50/50.

[AutobahnSHO]

The instant low-speed torque probably helps a ton too. Auto transmissions have that minimum idle speed...

Come to think of it, EVs should also be better STOPPING in slick conditions- the transmission in Auto cars is still pushing the drive wheels forward. I read a long long time ago that stopping auto in snow/ice when it feels like don't have enough stopping distance, to put it into neutral because that 5mph-ish speed makes all the difference not having that push.

[CaminoRacer]

I would guess most EV's are going to be close to 50/50.

Yeah probably. For trucks that's huge.

[MrH]

It has 50/50 weight distribution? That's awesome.

Yeah.  Feels totally different than ICE trucks in that sense.  Usually they're really light in the rear end comparatively.  And you're in 2HI most of the time, so trucks typically aren't great in the snow unless it's bad enough that you're immediately sticking it in 4HI.  Permanent AWD is nice

[r0tor]

I would not like to try stopping that thing going downhill

[MrH]

The instant low-speed torque probably helps a ton too. Auto transmissions have that minimum idle speed...

Come to think of it, EVs should also be better STOPPING in slick conditions- the transmission in Auto cars is still pushing the drive wheels forward. I read a long long time ago that stopping auto in snow/ice when it feels like don't have enough stopping distance, to put it into neutral because that 5mph-ish speed makes all the difference not having that push.

None of that makes any sense.  Your brakes easily overcome any "push" from an auto spinning a torque converter.  Putting it into neutral doesn't do anything other than preventing you from making dumb throttle decisions.

[Morris Minor]

I just want to say:

The Lightning is incredible in the snow.  Even on just all-seasons.  All things that play into it:

7,000 lbs
AWD with two separate motors and no diff to shuffle power between front and rear
Instant torque with great throttle response
Low CG + 50/50 weight distribution

I thought my old 4Runner in 4Hi on brand new BFG KO2s was good, but this is probably even better.

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 - awesome. Glad it's working out well.

(PS I follow a guy who specializes in large format analog photography - his vehicle is a 4Runner, perfect for forays into the desert... & seedy parts of Los Angeles.)

[AutobahnSHO]

None of that makes any sense.  Your brakes easily overcome any "push" from an auto spinning a torque converter.  Putting it into neutral doesn't do anything other than preventing you from making dumb throttle decisions.

Coming to a stop sign in snow you're not on the throttle at all. Neutral enables more precise braking input- because YES the brakes can totally overcome idling torque converter- that means human is pushing on the brakes more and the wheels are trying to go forward against the brakes.

EV braking is the opposite- the transmission is actually slowing the wheels then also any hydraulic braking kicks in when needed.

[r0tor]

Coming to a stop in gear, initially you have engine braking just like an EV.  There is nothing to gain by shifting into neutral

[Eye of the Tiger]

It helps on ice

[Laconian]

I think that a decent braking system can manage the distribution of braking forces at a high enough bandwidth just as well as an electric motor can.

[AutobahnSHO]

It helps on ice

I know.

[AutobahnSHO]

Coming to a stop in gear, initially you have engine braking just like an EV. 

Not really- most autos coast without any engine braking. And then at the last 5mph or so, the engine is actually still pushing the drive wheels.

I think that a decent braking system can manage the distribution of braking forces at a high enough bandwidth just as well as an electric motor can.

It's all analog, yes of course the brakes are able to mitigate engine/tranny pushing the drive wheels- much more fine braking modulation can be done when you take away that forward force.

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I don't see snow anymore    but ya'll should try it next time it's really slippery out and you're in an automatic car. Stop in gear then try a stop in neutral.

[giant_mtb]

[Eye of the Tiger]

If I reverse down my driveway in its current state of pure ice, the torque will drag the front tires and I'll lose steering. ABS/TCS/VSC can only do so much on a steep grade covered in pure ice. Coasting is much more controlled.

[Morris Minor]

If I reverse down my driveway in its current state of pure ice, the torque will drag the front tires and I'll lose steering. ABS/TCS/VSC can only do so much on a steep grade covered in pure ice. Coasting is much more controlled.

Like going down a wet mountainside w/ a 35lb backpack vs no backpack. Easier to finesse & modulate without the extra push.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Like going down a wet mountainside w/ a 35lb backpack vs no backpack. Easier to finesse & modulate without the extra push.

I'm falling down either way.

[r0tor]

In 3 posts we have concluded there is added "push" by the trans, no engine braking because the trans declutches, and also shifting in neutral provides more stopping power

[Eye of the Tiger]

In 4 posts we have concluded that sugar-free gummy bears help my digestion.

[MrH]

Not really- most autos coast without any engine braking. And then at the last 5mph or so, the engine is actually still pushing the drive wheels.

It's all analog, yes of course the brakes are able to mitigate engine/tranny pushing the drive wheels- much more fine braking modulation can be done when you take away that forward force.

--------- ---------------

I don't see snow anymore    but ya'll should try it next time it's really slippery out and you're in an automatic car. Stop in gear then try a stop in neutral.